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Americas New Military Rifle Kicks Ass.

Discussion in 'Himalayan Imports' started by DannyinJapan, Aug 24, 2004.

  1. etp777


    Aug 12, 2002
    Exactly right on the round that fits mag/receiver.

    And for thsoe who've missed it(didn't see it in this thread), the XM8, while being a G36 action, utilizes STANAG(current issue M16) mags, and in it's most likely adoption will be in 5.56(.223), not 6.8SPC, though they're sitll working to change that, and hopefully they will.

    I'm just not a fan of any weapon where trunion melted out of gun from sustained fire. And while some may claim that shouldn't really be a conccern for a shoulder fired small arm(I'd disagree), you have to remember that HK is putting the XM8 forward as a full small arms weapons platforms, similiar to the Stoner 69. This includes a belt fed model, and various others. Not exactly gun i want to rely on myself in this type of role.

    M16/AR system is definitely not my favorite, but i believe with the 6.8 uppers that Barrett and others are coming out with, and the supply chain we already ahve setup for it, that this is a far superior choice to the XM8. Especially if the Minime can easily be modified for the 6.8 round too(there has been discussion of this, but I don't remember what was said about how easy it would be to do, and I don't know that weapons system well enough to say myself)
  2. Kismet


    Jan 30, 2002

    Ah...but see, you are applying logic to an illogical situation. :(

    Insert into your theorizing, the "Ride the project to promotion and after-service employment" factor, and you get a whole different set of criteria for making the change.

    People have been DEMOTED or sent to the Aleutians for thinking straight line in the military hierarchy.

  3. DannyinJapan


    Oct 9, 2003
    i bet you all a cookie the new weapon is CHEAPER to make than the M16.
  4. Yvsa


    May 18, 1999
    What kinda cookie Danny? Sure wish there was a leering smilie.:D
  5. DannyinJapan


    Oct 9, 2003
    one o them soft cookies with macadamia nuts
  6. munk


    Mar 22, 2002
    I'm not sure you'd win the bet, Danny, or by much if you did. HK puts a premium on its stuff.

    History channel has a special gleaned from Tales Of The Gun- the M16 story.
    First guns didn't have chrome lined chambers. "The Whizz Kids" around Kennedy had an attitude which was, "if Stoner wanted chrome lined bores he's of made them that way."

    So the weapons jammed. People died. Big fuss. We got chrome lined, we learned it was good to clean the weapon, and we got forward assist.

    We worked the bugs out and it's as good as it's gonna get until the next obvious, superior leap forward arrives.

    You guys are telling me it has not arrived, but we're going to spend the money anyway.

    I still would like to know if the new Soiviet weapon could be the real next step forward.

  7. Spectre


    Nov 3, 1998

    I've really wanted a .250 Savage for some years. :)

    I, and many others, have been calling for a new cartridge for some years. I personally have no problem with the effectiveness of the 5.56x45mm (.223), but it could be replaced with a round only marginally heavier and larger, that would be as effective as the .308, thereby reducing logistics burden. That cartridge has been developed, in the 6.5x39mm round.

    I believe the XM-8 is an improvement, but not a revolutionary one.

    Munk, the Soviets do have some interesting traits built into the AN-94, most specifically, the variable rate of fire, which IS revolutionary.

  8. 45-70


    Jul 10, 2003
    Well, since we're talking AK's I lust after the 105


    Especially with a folding stock.

    If the ban does fall to renew, that is my first fire0-arm purchase. I have a SAR that might get the SBR treatment.

    I wonder if an afghan kuk is the proper accoutrement?
  9. munk


    Mar 22, 2002
    You'll never be able to get the Soviet arm; it fires by recoil and gas piston- two operations, two bullets hitting the same or nearly the same point of aim during one firing incident.

    (if I understood from reading long ago)

  10. 45-70


    Jul 10, 2003

    But I can get one cosmetically similar, I like the folding stock and the one piece gas cylinder. FSB.

    I like ak's.

    maybe I should change my handle to M-43 or something huh?
  11. Yvsa


    May 18, 1999
    I like AKs too. I'm real fond of my Chezck made AK-47. What's the 105?
    I would like one that shoots the .308 round!
  12. 45-70


    Jul 10, 2003

    Super Vepr, although it's more of a RPK (I think that is what they called their light machine gun).
  13. Yvsa


    May 18, 1999
    45-70 I just like guns. I know damn little about them, just waht I like. You'll have to 'splain yer writin to me.;)
  14. 45-70


    Jul 10, 2003
    Super VEPR was a rifle produced a couple years ago in 308 WIN, basically a scaled up AK, but they used the trunnion of a heavier gun, I believe the russian RPK. Guns we had were available with 5 and 10 rd synthetic mags, and had a scope mount. Wood looked great, but I can't recall how the safety worked. They had pretty nice triggers too, but at nearly $700 a pop, they didn't move too fast.

    http://www.robarm.com/VEPR SUPER Printable.pdf

    I quit working at that gun shop last October. I loved it, but with the regular job (50-60 hours a week). a new baby, and 8-10 hours in the gun shop I was getting itchy.

    In my mind, a FAL is the best .308 battle rifle. M-1A is more accurate, but the adjustable gas system in the FAL and the cheaper mags outweigh the M-1A's good points to me.
  15. munk


    Mar 22, 2002
    I like AK's too. You know, if you didn't know anything else about them, the way the bolt rotates and swings the momentum with it give the gun a rolling gait - at shooting. It is a lot of fun.

    You know how certain engines seem to like being accelerated and others don't? The Ak likes being shot. It told me so- both of them.

  16. Spectre


    Nov 3, 1998
    Saw a .308 Vepr last Saturday in Knoxville, TN for about $430.

    'Course, I know someone who paid $300 for a FAL that day, too...

  17. Ferrous Wheel

    Ferrous Wheel

    May 16, 2002
    the 1994 "Assault" weapons ban is set to expire on Sept13th, 2004. There will be a small window in which hi capacity mags, 'assault" configuration rifles and shotguns will be available, before the Gov't dogs are done tearing each other up and realize what's going on.
    I might jest hafta get an M-14 or something.

    I finally found a carbine that shoots .45ACP, the Marlin Camp Carbine. Yvsa and I were talking this up about a year ago. With the ban lifting, I'd be able to get this with tor 20rd mag instead.
  18. golok


    Oct 20, 2000
    That's quite a neat-looking weapon! :cool: :cool:
  19. brantoken


    Feb 6, 2004
    From my understanding , the ammo will drive the next leap
    forward, as it has driven changes in the past. Smokless
    powder basically brought us to where we are today and I would
    venture to say their hasn't been a major leap forward in
    at least 50 years. Mostly a reshuffling of ideas already created.

    Lighter weight more compact ammo will drive it forward,
    as grunts will always be carrying too much. With black powder
    larger bullet weights were require to get any knock down power.

    Bullet weights dropped significantly with smokless as velocity increased.
    In addition , better steels were required as well.

    If you doubt that take a gander a what soldier has carried as a basic load
    for the last 200 years.

    If you think a fal is great, try a 20 mile road march. I can assure you , It won't be your favorite for long. But they are great for going to the range ( in your car). Or if you want to carry less ammo.....like your a sniper.

    lighter weight gear deliver a soldier to a combat zone , with less stress , less tired means less mistakes , pretty much an established policy and direction in all branches.

    We are heading back in that direction with a semi caseless round,
    with a new more powerful propellant , I would say we have got a
    good chance at it.

    Minimun bullet weight has pretty much been established, 5.56 it will be
    that pretty much it. With higher barrel velocities you start running into erosion problem ( even with chrome) from my understanding as well. There
    are some aerodynamic considerations too, but it been a while since I looked at that but I recall reading that the idea round aerodynamically would be
    somewhere between a 6mm and a 30 caliber.

    so to make the leap , you will need a more powerful propellant, stronger
    and lighter ( not the cheap stuff) barrel and reciever material.

    If it's more ergo, that means more complicated Manufacturing processes which
    equal more cost as well.

    Also more accuracy mean tigher tolerances in essensse ( on most part), that means more cost.

    we won't even discuss the cost of retooling all the ammo plants , which need to churn out millions of rounds, or weather proof packaging systems.... etc.

    I also bet the new one will cost 4 to 10 times as much as the M16, and that
    my friend is just technology , cost of materials, not to mention politics......

    I'm a mechanical designer, it would be my dream come true , please hire me for the job.......I'm really fond of titianium too.

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