Ask Toooj

Discussion in 'Ontario Knife Company' started by OntarioKnifeCompany, Apr 29, 2015.

  1. Toooj

    Toooj

    920
    Aug 8, 2006
    bore,

    I'll have to get back to you on your question. Please give me a little time and I'll have an answer.

    Ptac,

    You are correct. Machetes really don't require high hardness. In fact, high hardness becomes a hindrance on impact tools. Toughness and strength are better qualities. The 18 inch machete is probably the limit for 1095 and 1075 would most likely work better. Having said this there are a lot of factors that have to be considered when making a steel change...most of them have to do with manufacturing processes and not the end use requirement.
    Hope this helps.

    Best Regards,

    Paul Tsujimoto
    Director of Engineering
    Ontario Knife Company
     
  2. Ptac157

    Ptac157 Gold Member Gold Member

    127
    Jul 23, 2013
    Thanks Toooj, I might have to buy a 22 inch, cut a few inches off and make an 18 inch 1075 version lol
     
  3. bore

    bore

    533
    May 20, 2015
    Thanks. Must be a bit unique the plain black blade. Don't see any pics online. I like it. It's probably 1095 which is fine.
     
  4. LG&M

    LG&M

    Dec 19, 2005
    I have two questions.
    1, what is the hardness of the old Hickery line? My guess is around 55rc.
    2, The show fat guys in the woods , the host Mr. Stewart uses your Blackbird SK5. Even gives one away. Why not take advantage of his love of your knives and supply something for the " players" to use? Like maybe the Cayuga , or USAF survival knife.
     
  5. Toooj

    Toooj

    920
    Aug 8, 2006
    LG&M,

    The Catalog says 53-58HRc. That is just a general catch all range. But in reality, they run 56-58HRc. Engineering and Quality are presently working in Heat Treat to optimize and standardize the hardnesses of the many blades that Ontario produces.
    As far as question #2; One of the show's people has reached out to us but there are many things that must fall in place before things happen. We'll see.

    Hope this helps.

    Best Regards,

    Paul Tsujimoto
    Director of Engineering
    Ontario Knife Company
     
  6. bghorn

    bghorn

    197
    May 18, 2015
    Hello Tooj
    Will Bushcraft Woodsman really be 53-55 HRC? Seems rather low for a knife.
     
  7. LG&M

    LG&M

    Dec 19, 2005
    Thank you Toooj.
     
  8. Toooj

    Toooj

    920
    Aug 8, 2006
    bghorn,

    Dan Maragni, our Ontario Metal whisperer, has done extensive testing on 5160 and found that hardness range to be the best for both edge holding AND Toughness/strength for this knife. This is a large chopper and we suspect that it will see tons of impact hits on both edge and spine. Also in the wild, being able to easily sharpen the edge of a large blade takes on a whole new meaning. So optimizing high Harness may not be the best for a Bushcraft application.
    I remember reading a Roll-Royce technical sheet long ago: It read; Horsepower: Sufficient. 0-60 time: Adequate. My point: let's not get totally caught up in the numbers game. The Woodsman will do everything demanded of it in the wild.
    Hope this helps.

    Best Regards,

    Paul Tsujimoto
    Director of Engineering
    Ontario Knife Company
     
  9. bghorn

    bghorn

    197
    May 18, 2015
    Thank you, very much appreciated.
     
  10. OntarioKnifeCompany

    OntarioKnifeCompany Moderator Moderator

    403
    Jan 3, 2013
    I think part of the reason Dan Maragni and I get along so well goes back to the first time we met. There was a discussion about increasing hardness on some of our knives, and Dan was against it. My response, having at that point had all of 90 minutes of experience in the knife industry, was "when I think of something being extremely hard, I worry about it being brittle." He pointed at me and said "exactly!" More than anything, it was an example of the least knowledgeable person in the room being the one to say the stupidly obvious thing, but I always think back to that when this discussion comes up. People are going to chop and baton with this thing. They're smashing it into wood and hitting it with sticks. If we can keep the hardness in a sweet spot, where the edge retention is still good but the resistance to damage is notably increased, it's a no-brainer. That has to be done.
     
  11. bghorn

    bghorn

    197
    May 18, 2015
    Oh, I would never doubt Mr. Maragni. I was hoping for more details about the thought process behind though, which I ultimately found in a very old post (by Bill McGrath) about Spec Plus Gen II series. Post contains Maragni's quote (scroll to the bottom).

    Link to the post: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Spec-Plus-Gen-II-Review?p=6230845#post6230845

    Very interesting read. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most, if not all, would also apply to Bushcraft Woodsman, since it is (for the most part) derivative of the SP50.
     
  12. dingy

    dingy

    Feb 19, 2008
    OKC Kukri and sp10 both are great knives , may your OKC offer 5160 version in future?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2015
  13. Toooj

    Toooj

    920
    Aug 8, 2006
    dingy,

    Ni hao ma?

    Yes, for sure, on one of the models. The other? we'll see.
    Sorry. Can't be more specific at this time.

    Best Regards,

    Paul Tsujimoto
    Director of Engineering
    Ontario Knife Company
     
  14. dingy

    dingy

    Feb 19, 2008
    thank you for your kindness.
    sp gen2 kukri & marine raider will be cool .:thumbup:
     
  15. ocnLogan

    ocnLogan

    Jul 31, 2011
    Hey Toooj, quick question for you.

    What's with the crazy texture/pattern on the Old Hickory knives?

    I'd be interested to know what the historical reason was (if any), and if that reason is any different today.

    My apologies if this has been asked/answered before, but I did a quick search and didn't find anything and thought I might as well ask :).
     
  16. Toooj

    Toooj

    920
    Aug 8, 2006
    Hey ocnLogan,

    How are you?

    To be quite honest, I don't know. I'm old but the Old Hic brand is even older.

    Here are my top guesses:
    1) Purely a design feature. There are large panels on many of the Old Hic blades and they are quite boring without something to break up the surface.
    2) A design feature to cover the pits and scratches on the blade surface. The design takes the eye away from the typical surface defects that typically pop up before and during processing.
    3) Stamping designed to help straighten the blade after blanking. For the majority of the Old Hic patterns, the design is a secondary stamping operation. For the paring knife, it is done in a progressive die prior to the blank release.
    4) All of the above.

    If you look at many of the kitchen/food prep knives from 70-100 years ago. Surface patterning was a typical feature found on many Brands. Each company had their own pattern and it was what identified the brand. These days the handle is typically what is used to distinguish brand identity. Case in point: Cutco, Henkel, Kai Shun, Becker....

    Hope this helps.

    Best Regards,

    Paul Tsujimoto
    Director of Engineering
    Ontario Knife Company
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
  17. ocnLogan

    ocnLogan

    Jul 31, 2011
    Thanks Toooj, I've been wondering why that was for quite a while now. And just so we're clear, I don't think anyone around here thought that you've been around since the introduction of the old hickory line :p.

    And I'm doing fine. Things have been interesting in life lately, but overall the positives are larger than the negatives, so I can't complain. Thanks for asking :).

    So it sounds like the answer is likely to be "because of old manufacturing processes", "just because" or "because tradition" (all are acceptable reasons). And I had no idea that blade patterns were used as part of a brands identity back in the day. Good to know :).

    You're right though, the old hickory line has a very low saber grind, so there is quite a bit of blade to "decorate" with the pattern (as its got a fairly wide chord).

    Anyway, thanks again for the insight :).
     
  18. afishhunter

    afishhunter

    Oct 21, 2014
    1) Any chance of a Old Hickory Kephart and Nessmuk pattern?

    2) What Old Hickory blade would you suggest for reshapping into a Nessmuk? Would the number 71 skinner be a good candidate?
     
    neal70 likes this.
  19. Toooj

    Toooj

    920
    Aug 8, 2006
    afishhunter,

    We'll see about Ontario producing those models. We are trying to upgrade the Old Hic line.

    IMHO, the Old Hic 7-7 Butcher knife is a pretty good platform to use for the Kephart pattern. There is enough blade real estate for your design and any variations in shape and size that you wish to do.
    As you mentioned, the 71-6 Skinner is probably the closest for the Nessmuk knife as the upswept blade allows for the top "hump". There may be too much of an upsweep on the belly to duplicate an exact Nessmuk pattern depending on how much blade length you wish to have. You never know unless you give it a try.
    The neat thing about the Old Hic line, is that they are easily found and inexpensive. If you mess up, you aren't out a lot of money and you can start over without a lot of monetary pain.

    Good luck. Post pics of your knives!

    Best Regards,

    Paul Tsujimoto
    Director of Engineering
    Ontario Knife Company
     
  20. Pindvin

    Pindvin

    199
    Dec 11, 2008
    Hello
    If i polish the blade of this knife, will the logo disappear? Or is it etched/stamped in the steel?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

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