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Beautiful...but not quite what I ordered. M43.

Discussion in 'Himalayan Imports' started by Aleous, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. Karda

    Karda Banned BANNED

    Jun 1, 2007
    I'm afraid Aleous is right. Increasing the pricing would only increase expectation and problems.
    To help? Please be patient and understanding with us. Please realise that we are not like Busse, Spyderco, Kai Corp.....etc.
    We do not have unlimited resources. There is just Auntie, Pala and I keeping the cogs greased and turning with help from our actual employees and volunteer moderators, friends and loyal customers. Please understand that Running a business like this is so difficult that it would astound you. I myself am totally in awe of Aunties tenacity in keeping things going. There are very few people that I admire more than that fine lady. Please be gentle with and to her. Please realize that we also have lives outside the business and forum that we must at times give attention to. Sometimes we need to take time for ourselves and may not respond as quickly as you'd like. Sometime we are fallible for we are only human.

    ......Oh, and buy a doggone T-Shirt to help the kami/bean fund and so that I might use a little of it to possibly have a few of the birghorka t-shirts like on the website made to post for sale. :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
  2. davidf99

    davidf99 Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Sep 27, 2011
    I agree that raising the price on customs would not help. People with more money to spend are not less fussy. Quite the contrary, in my experience, though there are some fine exceptions on this very forum.

    You might be surprised how well one of those WWII vintage blades (and handles) polish up, and in the price range similar to an HI blade. If you detest rust you might enjoy sending it to the rust graveyard. :)

    However, Karda makes a good suggestion to "wait for one of the smaller version M-43's that were produced recently." Back on Sept 19,2014 I got a 15" 24oz M43 by Rajkumar with satisal handle that is beautiful and can chop with the best of them. Here is the link, with pictures:

    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1109882-Bajra-Sword-and-M-43-for-9-19

    The wait might not be longer than the wait for a custom, and in the meantime you have the heavier one to play with.

    By the way, a 15" M43 at 24 oz will probably feel lighter than an 18" M43 of the same weight, because the center of gravity is closer to your hand.
     
  3. snowwolf

    snowwolf Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 11, 2013
    Lol - Different wording, weight and length but same concept.
     
  4. kamagong

    kamagong

    Jan 13, 2001
    It might not be possible to make an 18" M43 at 25 ounces, but the kamis can certainly make it lighter than 31 oz. The problem is that they've got it into their heads that bigger is always better. Longer, thicker, heavier. Trying to keep the kamis from going overboard is a continuous battle that's been fought for at least the 15 years I've owned HIs.

    Here's one that is much closer to the OP's target. 17 1/2", 28 oz. Bought on Uncle Bill's birthday almost a dozen years ago.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. cooper669

    cooper669

    124
    Apr 7, 2012
    That's a beauty! I love the handle and white metal.
     
  6. Karda

    Karda Banned BANNED

    Jun 1, 2007
    The same can be said of customers. I would not dare to wholly blame the kamis for providing users a product to match their uber tactical, do what I want with my purchase including chopping thru cinder blocks and expect it to be replaced under warranty mentality. End users do have an effect on and drive the market for any given product. We as end users are as much, if not more at fault for this issue as well as the misconception surrounding it.

    Which brings us to: The Weight Issue- Einsteins Theory Of Khukuri Relativity 8>D
     
  7. kamagong

    kamagong

    Jan 13, 2001
    Perhaps, but I've witnessed the evolution of HI's wares for almost 15 years. I own knives from Shop 1, Shop 2, and BirGorkha. I've seen them get thicker and thicker and listened to Uncle Bill as he lamented the overly built khukuris coming from Nepal, despite the fact that he kept telling the kamis to back off a bit, that it really is possible to have too much of a good thing. You think that the kamis are responding to the end users; I think they are just being stubborn, in the same way that they continue to make a blunt awl for the YCS.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  8. Karda

    Karda Banned BANNED

    Jun 1, 2007

    The kami do not run the company, nor do they follow the forum or trends very much.
    What they do follow is the instruction from Uncle Bill, Auntie and I and the failure rate and type of failure of khukuri.
    The trend towards destruction testing and doing as one pleases because the warranty is expected to cover negligent usage is primarily what has led to overbuilt khukuri. Also the trend of using khukuri as they weren't originally designed to be used has also led to this phenomena.
    Blame cannot be solely laid at the feet of the kami any more than It can be put upon the owners of the company or the end user.
    It is more closely related to the unreasonable expectations of blade usage fostered by those that have to have one knife to be a do-it-all blade that will will act as kitchen slicer as well as wood processor and must take anything that is thrown at it, including abuse.

    Awhile back we had some problems with various edge failures. Customers blamed it on heat treat and that the quality of HI khukuri had slipped and was not what it once was. After having a few of these pass thru my hands and repairing them, then testing them to be sold as blems/discount items, I found that the actual problem lied in the fact that the bevels and razor sharpness of the khukuri were to blame. The bevels were ground too thin and the khukuri were sharper than the needed to be for the act of chopping. This phenomena was created by customers complaining that they could not shave or whittle arm hair with their khukuri. Once the kami's started to put a little more meat behind the edge and making them more "field sharp" and testing the khukuri themselves before shipment, the problem more or less vanished. I'm pretty sure that a kami with his fathers and his forefathers before him's knowledge about khukuri aesthetics far outclasses any supposition or opinion you or I may have on the matter.

    I for one see a place for the heavy chopper, as well as the utility or weapons style lighter khukuri.
    To place blame wholly on one group of people or to condemn one style or weight over another is extremely short sighted and pretty biased OPINION. Opinions vary and by that nature one persons opinion may not agree with the next. There is room for diversity in this world. Without diversity this world would be a conformist cookie cutter world and not much of a world to live in.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  9. kamagong

    kamagong

    Jan 13, 2001
    Karda, you and I agree more than you think. This is an old problem. Here's a past thread on the subject -

    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/261683

    Hard to believe that the original post involved a Kobra. :hopelessness:

    Still I think Uncle Bill said it best.

    Here's the best explanation I've read for the kamis predilection for overbuilding khukuris today. The author was a blacksmith who used to post regularly.

    Don't get me started on the thin edges. I've got a 36 ounce :eek: 20" Sirupati with a slightly hollow-ground bevel. What's the point in building such a heavy blade, but giving it such a fragile (relatively) edge?

    Thick blades, thin edges, round handles, and cho creep. It just goes to show you that Yangdu has to stay on top of the kamis or all hell breaks loose. That she can do so at all is a wonder, given that she is half a world away and can't properly supervise them.
     
  10. Karda

    Karda Banned BANNED

    Jun 1, 2007
    Read the old threads....It seems as if we all agree on the subject and I apologize if I sound terse in some of my responses, but this subject is an old one and tends to stick in my craw a little because of the fact that some opinions tend to hurt the bottom line and Auntie and the Kami's livelihood.
    As like I said....there is room at the table for everyone big heavy users and their big heavy choppers, as well as the smaller folk and the lighter khukuri. There should be no reason for anyone to disparage the other camp because of the difference.

    I happen to like both. I use my heavy choppers for processing firewood and use my lighter khukuri processing game and home protection. I treat my tools as my father taught me. Use with care and forethought. Properly maintain and love them. There should be no reason that large or small, these blades should not last anyone a lifetime.

    I like the diversity, if nothing for the simple fact that I have an excuse for having multiple blades in my collection.
    I can justify doing so because For everything - turn, turn, turn There is a reason - turn, turn, turn, And a khukuri for every purpose under heaven.

    I understand the want and need for lighter khukuri, as I feel it myself.
    But I also understand the concerns of Auntie and the kamis in regards to the warranty of lighter khukuri. Unscrupulous and dishonest people forced the warranty change and came pretty close to ending HI as a company. As a relatively small outfit compared to other manufacturers, HI's profit margins are small while the cost of doing business is ever increasing. There are a myriad of issues and logistics that are not readily known and can be difficult to understand. Add to the confusion/problem of political and cultural differences and it can be quite the mire to have to keep up with.
    All that Uncle went thru and all the issues that Auntie deals with on a daily basis only bolster my admiration for them and their tenacity to keep this all going. It is not an easy task at all to balance the company, kami's and customer needs, let alone their wants. We do our best to make everyone as happy as we can.
     
  11. Jens Schuetz

    Jens Schuetz

    Jun 24, 2013
    Never read anybody complain about HI Kukris being too light. Except the one guy who ordered an inch thick spine and only got 2/3rd or something like that.
    Seriously whoever complains (the op didn't) probably never owned and used an HI Kukri to begin with.
     
  12. Yangdu

    Yangdu [email protected] Himalayan Imports-Owner Moderator

    Apr 5, 2005
    Send it back to HI and I will send refund money via company check. You are welcome to reorder the light weight M-43 when situation gets better with shop and Kamis in Nepal.
     
  13. jaxdave

    jaxdave

    1
    Apr 30, 2010
    Well done, way to take care of your customer!
     
  14. Bawanna

    Bawanna Moderator Moderator

    Dec 19, 2012
    Ask not what Auntie can do for you, ask what you can do for Auntie.
     
  15. Gehazi

    Gehazi

    Jun 30, 2013
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++bawanna-- heeed his words !
     
  16. sams

    sams

    Apr 21, 2001
    I have a M43 with a 3/8" thick blade, and one with a 1/2" thickness. Using the two I found I prefer the heavier khukuri. I like them both but the thicker is sharp and does out perform the lighter one. Unless you are cutting grass and weeds in the backyard.
    Then the "lighter" one is better. Keep the heavy one and get a light one and see for yourself. You would not have trouble selling one if you want to keep only one M43.
     
  17. J W Bensinger

    J W Bensinger

    Mar 26, 2009
    Out of 5160, with the teapot quench, there is going to be a limit to how thin it can get before it cracks, or warps all over the place. Pre WW2 steel didn't have the additives 5160 has (which make it harden faster and more thoroughly in oil). As I've said before, I'm amazed that the kamis can water quench 5160 without blowups. Making it narrower in handle and blade will eventually make it a very sinuous chiruwa sirupati, not an M43...distal taper is the solution, but that goes back to the water hardening conundrum. I would be willing to bet that the WW2 M43's (mine was a Pioneer Calcutta) were oil hardened in a factory, and possibly forged on a trip hammer toget them in the hands of the Gurkhas quicker.
    It is a lovely blade, that one.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
  18. Aleous

    Aleous

    333
    Aug 24, 2013
    Done deal, thank you Yangdu for taking care of me, it's on it's way back to you now. Hope someone can give this beauty a good home, it was hard letting go. Think I'll settle for something lighter, sadly of less quality(CS GK) until I can try and order a lighter M43 again. Thank you everyone and I sincerely apologize to Yangdu and Karda for any trouble I or this thread may have caused them.
     
  19. jdk1

    jdk1

    Apr 21, 2010
    You bring up several great points. As a lover of light khuks, I wonder if there is a point where the method of manufacture just hits it's limit. Yet, the HI swords must have thin blades, right? I've not handled them. I know the original HI M43's were made as light as 24 oz. and we're dead ringers for the breed. They were/are loved by the users. I'd love to get the specs on one. I think it would be a great model for HI and a boon for customers as well. As someone who has seen first hand how capable a 19 oz. khukuri is, I recommend khuk fans try the different types before judging, and I'm not a smaller guy by any stretch

    Go the best of my knowledge, the war time Mk. II's were made in what were essentially makeshift blacksmith shops. That being said, there is an industrial aspect to the model. I suspect the manufacture didn't involve much industrial method, besides maybe increased grinding. But this is my speculation based on the research done by those way more knowledgable than I'll ever be. And there is much disagreement between some of them. So much of what we know about khuks is educated speculation. I will add that my vintage Mk. II's are a little on the soft side. I've read the Gurkhas preferred their khuks that way.

    I think constructive conversation is positive. I don't believe anyone wants to cause harm to HI. All khukuri fans owe Auntie and Uncle a debt of gratitude, and that goes for other manufacturers as well. I'd also like to say we should keep an open mind. I love all my khuks, traditional and modern. I see very closed minds on both side and it saddens me. It's human nature, but is limiting. The different types aren't competing as I see it. They cannot compete because they offer different things. This is how I feel about the heavy vs light as well. It's all variety and that keeps life interesting. Take care everyone.
     
  20. snowwolf

    snowwolf Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 11, 2013
    Rest assure the someone in question will provide a very nice home to your ex. :cool:
     

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