Brand Sponsored Knife Steels: Thoughts?

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by J85909266, Sep 10, 2020.

  1. Quiet

    Quiet "That guy" Platinum Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    This is objectively incorrect. Also, I don't understand your comment about taking a well performing steel composition and "tweaking it". I mean, how did you think most of the super steels on the market today were brought about? DO you know how most of them were brought about? From your commentary here, it's clear that you don't. Well, that's gotta be embarrassing.

    I can assure you that it's not "marketing".
     
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  2. evilgreg

    evilgreg Why so serious? Gold Member

    Dec 25, 2012
    I don't care much about steels*, much less steel names.

    That said, INFI annoys me. The way fans attribute mystical properties to it reminds me too much of all the Richtig/tamahagane ancient arts 10,000 folds katana/mystical lost magic type idiocy that pops up over and over again.

    *IMO steel snobbery is 99% silly, plus 0.9% really stupid
     
  3. dryflytrout

    dryflytrout

    150
    Jan 15, 2017
    Developing steel specifically for knives rather than using other industry's leftovers seems like a good thing to me.
     
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  4. Larrin

    Larrin Gold Member Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Gold Member

    Jan 17, 2004
    SPY27 is a pretty substantial modification of S35VN. You can see the evolution from previous steels for sure but I wouldn’t denigrate it by calling it a small tweak. Most steels are modifications of something that existed previously, some more extensive than others.
     
  5. Lodd

    Lodd Gold Member Gold Member

    493
    Jan 23, 2015
    You know this is what's gonna happen to SPY27, right? The spyderco brand will make some people go crazy. Good for them, I guess.

    As some people have pointed out, it's good that the knife industry now has the purchasing power to make this a reality. The downside is that we're gonna get a lot of branded steels that are just pure marketing mumbo-jumbo.

    Me, I'll just keep using the Z-knives app, and get info from testers and experts I have come to trust. The bad steels will be seperated from the good ones, no matter the name.
     
  6. cali

    cali

    297
    Apr 19, 2004
    The most important factor IMO is that it is made for Spyderco, so you can buy it only from Spyderco, can't compare it to other knives so Spyderco knives can be priced higher.
     
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  7. Lodd

    Lodd Gold Member Gold Member

    493
    Jan 23, 2015
    I think I get part of what you're getting at. And I can see how it will increase the price of Spyderco knives. But, you can still compare it to other knives, right? You can still do tests like cutting rope and stuff right? I mean, it's just another knife with another steel. What's to stop anyone from comparing it to other knives?
     
  8. SpyderPhreak

    SpyderPhreak Rocketman for hire Platinum Member

    Apr 13, 2004
    INFI isn't magical. Yes, I said it, and many folks here would consider me to be one of the Busse fanboys.

    However, INFI does come with a great compromise of properties, especially for a hard-use, everyday steel. It's not the hardest, not the most wear resistant, not the most corrosion resistant, and not the toughest steel on the market. Even Jerry Busse will tell you this. But it DOES do all these things pretty damn well, it's an excellent, well-rounded steel. That doesn't make it mythical or legendary, but it does make it pretty good stuff. Can you blame them for keeping the recipe to themselves? I can't.

    SPY27 is new, it's Spyderco's take on a well-rounded steel. If it proves to be good stuff, we'll see a lot more of it, and likely there will be versions of it made by other steel manufacturers. Time will tell. What I do NOT see Spyderco doing is charging a premium price for this stuff vs. some of the current crop of super steels or in-demand tool steels. Will it cost more than something like VG-10? Yeah, it likely will, and it should. Nothing wrong with that IMO.
     
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  9. Rhinoknives1

    Rhinoknives1 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 1, 2013
    I’m glad Larson chimed in!.....To the Op, The 440A,B & C family of Steels from the late 1050’s are the Grand parents of many Cutlery Steels. ATS-34, CM-154 RWL-154 and many more.
     
    Chronovore likes this.
  10. Larrin

    Larrin Gold Member Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Gold Member

    Jan 17, 2004
    420 stainless was the first stainless and the first stainless knife steel, patented in 1916. It likely came out of high carbon high chromium steels (similar to D3 and the later D2) which had a similar amount of chromium. 440A added more carbon and chromium in 1927. 440C added more carbon by 1935. 154CM was a modification of 440C where chromium was replaced by 4% Mo for high temperature bearings in 1959. S60V (early 80s) and Elmax (early 90s) were modifications of 440C with vanadium additions and higher carbon to go with it. M390 (1989) was a modification of K190/D7 with increased chromium and reduced carbon. S90V (1995) reduced chromium of S60V and increased vanadium. S30V (2001) replaced 2% Mo in 154CM with 2% V but then they further increased the V to 4% when Chris Reeve asked for more wear resistance. S35VN (2009) reduced the vanadium of S30V to 3% and added 0.5% niobium instead. S45VN (2019) increased chromium of S35VN to 16%.

    Everything is a modification of something else.
     
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  11. K.O.D.

    K.O.D. Sanity Not Included Platinum Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    Personally, I give the "edge" to Spy27 over S35VN in edge holding. I'm looking forward to more of it.

    My Para 3 Spy27 lightweight came incredibly sharp, has cut cardboard, tape, plastic, rubber, with no discernable loss of sharpness.

    I have 4 knives in S35VN and prefer Spy27. And I love S35VN.
     
    MolokaiRider likes this.
  12. jlauffer

    jlauffer Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 11, 2016
    Yeah, really sucks that Demko tweaked the back lock to create the Tri-Ad lock. Who needs innovation?
     
  13. vjb.knife

    vjb.knife Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 2, 2002
  14. Halfneck

    Halfneck

    Jun 30, 2005
    I'm all for it. I like seeing knife companies being innovative. I'm looking forward to getting a Spyderco in their new steel - just can't decide which model (Native or PM 3 LW).

    Another past example - RWL34. RWL of course standing for Robert W. Loveless.

    And personally I don't mind sharpening my knives. I have a Spyderco medium grit ceramic stone at my computer desk. Most times I'll be touching up the edge on a knife while surfing online or playing a computer game.
     
    Hurrul likes this.
  15. cali

    cali

    297
    Apr 19, 2004
    Of course the steel properties can be compared.
    I am talking about marketing and pricing - this is unique feature of Spyderco, there is no competition, the price can be set at any level.
     
    Lodd likes this.
  16. Chronovore

    Chronovore Basic Member Basic Member

    666
    Aug 29, 2019
    The composition of AR-RPM9 has not yet been made public. I'm curious to know why 9Cr18Mov is the starting assumption. Even so, @OrangeBlueOrangeBlue raises a good question. If it was a powdered version of something like 9Cr18Mov or Acuto 440, would that be a bad thing?

    The models I've seen announced in AR-RPM9 are all budget knives priced on par with some of the Civivis. Listening to Michael Emler, who has been testing out some of the prototypes, this steel sounds like it could be a notable performer at that price range. Edge retention might not be as good as S35VN but in a $50-60 knife, does it have to be? According to Emler, edge retention is good, corrosion resistance is great, and AR-RPM9 responds unusually well to stropping. This could have potential in the "everyday user" category.

    I'll try out one of the new models when they drop. I'm especially curious to see how it does versus my budget knives in 14C28N, VG-10, and N690.
     
    OrangeBlueOrangeBlue likes this.
  17. Rhinoknives1

    Rhinoknives1 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 1, 2013
    Thanks for the corrections here. I’m a maker not a metal historian I should have said that. I had read that Stainless steels originated in GB around 1900 to fight corrosion of Shotgun/Rifles barrels from pre-smokeless powders and that Stainless cutlery steels soon followed. I remembered Buck knives used 440C on the Folding Hunter that I bought when I was 15. when I stated making knives in 96 .. 440C to ATS-34 CM-154 etc was the progression I saw with Loveless & other S. Cal makers I learned from..
     
  18. DocJD

    DocJD

    Jan 29, 2016
    :eek: Why ...yes as a matter of fact , they do ! :p:rolleyes::thumbsup:
     
  19. DocJD

    DocJD

    Jan 29, 2016
    :) I think maybe it is , at least somewhat , "marketing " .

    It's definitely being used as a selling point . :confused:

    That doesn't necessarily mean it's bad in any way or not a real advancement . ;)
     
  20. Planterz

    Planterz

    Mar 26, 2004
    Spyderco, by a large margin, has offered more steels for customers to use and try than any other company. And I don't mean just the Mule Team. How many companies offer a stainless steel as well as a carbon/alloy steel in the same knife?

    So, to me, it seems perfectly reasonable and logical for such a company to develop a steel that they think will suit their customers well. How do they know what their customers want? They listen. Perhaps more than any other company.

    I mean, a company like Ferrari or Lamborghini knows what kind of tires their cars need. They can go with off-the-shelf tires, which probably do fine, or they can work with a tire company to make just the right tires for optimum performance. Why would it be so odd for a knife company to do the same with steels?

    Maybe Spy27 will be successful, maybe it won't. Why rag on them for trying?
     
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