Cangshan S1 vs Wusthof Classic Ikon

Discussion in 'Kitchen Cutlery & Tools' started by Liquidm1980, Jul 3, 2020.

  1. Liquidm1980

    Liquidm1980

    455
    Jun 26, 2005
    So due to covid19 the wife and I have been eating a home a lot more. About ten years ago I got a set of Henckels ever sharp knives. Needless to say due to the serrations they can't be sharpened. About 2 years ago I bought a cheap (<$20) santoku knife I am able to sharpen. There is a huge difference compared to the Henckels. So now I am looking to spend some of the money we have been saving by eating at home. In addition to a cast iron pan I am looking at a set of knives. I am between the Changshan S1 from Costco for 200 bucks vs Wusthof for a bit over triple that. The steels seems the same or very similar. I am not worried about Japanese knives, I love my spydercos.

    I'd love to hear your thoughts.

    Thank You,

    Liquid
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  2. Eli Chaps

    Eli Chaps Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Apr 20, 2018
    I would not buy a set. Pick out a chef's/cook's knife you like and start from there.
     
    GABaus likes this.
  3. Liquidm1980

    Liquidm1980

    455
    Jun 26, 2005
    I might consider that. I have the block from the henckles I could use.

    Thank You
     
  4. KenHash

    KenHash

    Sep 11, 2014
    If you love your Spydercos then you would probably appreciate VG10 or better in the kitchen. rather than the soft krupp 4116 variants.
     
  5. Liquidm1980

    Liquidm1980

    455
    Jun 26, 2005
    Thank you.

    So for a vg10 I should look at Asian steel?
     
  6. Trey9123

    Trey9123

    13
    Jul 1, 2020
    I think it is more fun to build a set over time from various makes and models that speak to you. I have a mix and match set and it is kinda fun deciding what to use to cook with ever night. While we are on it, vintage knifes are fun and can be a really good deal too. I have lots of chef knives, including a $200 Shun, and my favorite is a vintage Chicago Cutler 8" I got off ebay for $12 and put a new handle on.
     
    GABaus likes this.
  7. tomsch

    tomsch Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 31, 2004
    Try calling Jon at https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/ and see what he suggests. Always very straight up with recommendations based on how you intend to use it, cutting board, and how you plan to sharpen.
     
  8. Liquidm1980

    Liquidm1980

    455
    Jun 26, 2005
    Thank you for the advice. I think I am going to hold off a bit and do more research. The santoku knife is a lot better after sharpening it on my wicked edge. I also got a ceramic rod for it.

    I also wanted to add this forum made me reconsider cutting boards. We mainly used 2, a glass and a plastic. A while back I figured glass can't be good for the blade and we used the plastic. Seeing the benefits of wood I mentioned it to my wife. She remembered our cousin gave us one a few years ago when she moved. Needless to say there are 2 small cracks. I have food safe glue coming and will give that board a shot.

    Thank You,

    Liquid
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
    GABaus and Eli Chaps like this.
  9. KenHash

    KenHash

    Sep 11, 2014
    "Asia" is not one country.
    If you want real VG10 look at Japanese Knives made in Japan. If they say VG10 then you'll get VG10 made by Takefu Specialty Steels in Japan.
    Knives made in China have frequently been represented as using "Japanese VG-10" but are in fact using the Chinese equivalent steel 10Cr15CoMoV.

    https://www.chefpanko.com/buying-a-japanese-vg10-damascus-chefs-knife-from-china/
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
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  10. Liquidm1980

    Liquidm1980

    455
    Jun 26, 2005
    Wow the Hammered Damascus is beautiful. I gave always liked the look of Damascus but will stay away from the lasered version.

    Thank you for the article
     
  11. Liquidm1980

    Liquidm1980

    455
    Jun 26, 2005
    I just wanted to give you all an update.

    I decided to go with a Wusthof Ikon 7 peice set. I considered the Japanese knives but decided I did not want to to deal with the harder steel. I also considered random knives but I like the look of a matched set and I got a decent price on the set. I saw a lot of people here praising Wusthof chef's knives.

    Thank You,

    Liquid
     
    Eli Chaps likes this.
  12. marchone

    marchone Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 13, 2013
    :thumbsup: Wusthof knives are workhorses and there are solid reasons for it.
     
  13. KenHash

    KenHash

    Sep 11, 2014
    Good choice, But the Cangshans are not Japanese knives. They are Chinese knives, ie; copies of Japanese Knives. And the represented "VG10" may not be as hard as real VG10. Wustoffs are good knives. but make sure you have a steel. At the fairly low hardness the edge will roll with use and routine use of the steel will keep them in good shape.
     
  14. Liquidm1980

    Liquidm1980

    455
    Jun 26, 2005
    Thank you for the info. I will have the steel that comes with the block and I also have a ceramic rod, which would be better to use?

    I know Cangshan is German steel made in China. A few members mentioned other Japanese knives I was also considering.
     
  15. LUW

    LUW

    675
    Nov 24, 2009
    If I'm not mistaken, the Ikon Classic and Ikon sets come with a sharpening steel, not a honing (smooth) steel. Since Wüsthof uses relatively soft steel (HRC 58), a sharpening steel can even dull your knife if you're not VERY careful with the angle of the blade when you use the rod. I like to sharpen my Ikons on wet stones and then just either strop them to polish the edge or set the edge with a smooth honing steel (which Wüsthof offers, but not in the Ikon line - only in the Classic line, IIRC).

    A ceramic rod will also sharpen your edge by removing material, so again you have to be very particular about the angle of the blade in relation to the rod. The advantage of a ceramic rod is that depending on the grain, it will remove less material than a striated sharpening steel, so in theory it will damage less the edge if you strike it at the wrong angle. That's why I stick to wet stones and leather stropping for sharpening and use a smooth honing rod while actually using the knife.
     
  16. marchone

    marchone Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 13, 2013
    WE Knives has a good looking Damascus gyuto.
     
  17. Liquidm1980

    Liquidm1980

    455
    Jun 26, 2005
    Luw,

    Thank you for the advice. I was not aware of the difference between the the steels. I have a ceramic rod with an angle guide. I know wusthof uses a 14 degree angle. When using the rod should I use the 14 degree angle or something else? Also would the answer be the same if I used the steel that came with the set or the ceramic rod?

    Thank You,

    Liquid
     
  18. LUW

    LUW

    675
    Nov 24, 2009
    If you're sharpening, you should use the angle of the edge (14º for Wüsthof). If you're just honing the edge with a smooth steal, that angle could be a little less precise, but remember that you shouldn't apply to much force and after a good sharpening 5 swipes on each side on the honing steal is more than enough. And if you're polishing the edge (= stropping), that angle can be even more off, but again, no pressure on the blade, just slide it over the strop.

    When sharpening with wet stones or sharpening rods (ceramic, diamond coated or carbide) you have to keep the angle as constant as possible. Honing steals are not so demanding, since you're only "straightening" the edge, and a strop, being soft, is even more forgiving in terms of blade angle.
     
  19. Liquidm1980

    Liquidm1980

    455
    Jun 26, 2005
    Thank you. I would only use the rod for honing purposes. For sharpening I plan to use my wicked edge. I can't wait to try the knives. I am waiting for an end block cutting board I ordered. I didn't want to use them on the bamboo one I currently have that was a gift a while back.
     
  20. LUW

    LUW

    675
    Nov 24, 2009
    Never thought of using wet stones? Quite an investment if you get some good stones, but then you'll be able to make the Ikons razor sharp:
    That is how the knife came OOTB with a little strapping. I touched it up just a little on a 1000 Naniwa stone and properly strapped it and now it's making paper-thin slices from a tomato*.

    *Yes, kind of useless in the kitchen, and for a second tomato I have to strap it again, but a cool trick nonetheless to show off your blade skills :p
     

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