Carbide platen...?

Discussion in 'Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers' started by Matthew Gregory, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. Geoff Flato

    Geoff Flato

    May 23, 2017
    There are many different sorts of TiN coatings. Try scraping it off a carbide insert for a turning tool, not happening.


    One thing that comes to mind is that a carbide platten will definitely wear out overtime, and be much more expensive to replace. I use a piece of carbide (lathe inserts I don't have holders for) instead of something like a file to force a belt over the edge of the platten to cut plunges. Even a 400 grit AO belt will cut it.
    And no it isn't some sort of cheese grade carbide, the inserts are Sandvik or Iscar

    No doubt it'll last longer. It's a matter of if it's enough longer to be worth the cost
     
  2. DavidHoback

    DavidHoback If you see me posting, remind me to STFU & leave.

    326
    Dec 10, 2014
    I have drawn the same conclusion. Tungsten is some hard stuff, sure. (Though not as hard as SOME think...numbers don't lie!) But it can be cut & wear out, like anything else. Compared to using glass, maybe M4, or even REX121, I don't think it's going to be cost effective. At least for me.


    I'm also looking at Boron Carbide. Now THAT is some seriously hard stuff. The material itself is cheaper, but the only form I have been able to find is curved body armor plate. Based on the price of a Boron Carbide chest plate, a 1/4"x2"x8" plate would "seem" to be fairly inexpensive.
     
    Geoff Flato likes this.
  3. Darrin Sanders

    Darrin Sanders Knifemaker Moderator

    May 6, 2009
    Really sorry that you're otherwise excellent thread has devolved into a train wreck Matt. Please let me know what you find out about the CARBIDE platens.
     
  4. Natlek

    Natlek

    Jun 9, 2015
    The "A" scale is used on tungsten carbide because the lower indenting force of 60 KGs is less likely to damage the diamond than the 150 KGs force used on the "C" scale.

    This becomes a bit funny . I don t understand what you try to prove ? Tungsten carbide falls between 8.5 and 9.0 on Moh's hardness scale, making it almost as hard as diamond. As I already wrote , try to scratch that thing with anything except diamond and come back to us .I have plenty of that stuff and I can t scratch that thing with anything I have ??? I use them to align grinding stone and to save cutting disk for big angle grinder when piece break close to edge ........END of story for me !
     
  5. Natlek

    Natlek

    Jun 9, 2015
    It will work for sure ! Silicon carbide plate is even better solution because coefficient of friction is lower and silicon carbide has excellent thermal conductivity to dissipate localized hot spots . .. . .
     
  6. Geoff Flato

    Geoff Flato

    May 23, 2017
    The boron carbide idea would be worth looking into. Ask anyone who's used a Norbide dresser stick, and they'll tell you it makes tungsten carbide look like cheese.
    I don't want to get into the how hard are things debate, but I've used both ceramic and Silicon carbide belts to shape tungsten carbide. It's hard stuff but definitely not immune to belt grinders
     
    DavidHoback likes this.
  7. DavidHoback

    DavidHoback If you see me posting, remind me to STFU & leave.

    326
    Dec 10, 2014

    You are correct! As I said, Tungsten is some hard stuff....but it's not even in the top 10 hardest materials on Earth. Another thing is people still think diamond is the hardest material known to man. Uhhhh, Nope!


    Oh I can hear the Google Search counter ringing off the chart! LOL!
     
  8. Natlek

    Natlek

    Jun 9, 2015
    I think you've gone too far now :thumbsdown: Of course that I use data for hardness of some material from book or reliable source of information from internet ! And I m in Macedonia ....six hours difference with New York :) My I ask you how you know that 3V steel you use for knive have 0.80% Carbon , Chromium 7.50% , Vanadium 2.75% , Molybdenum 1.30% ???????????????????? Maybe you have steel analysis gun :eek: Now , if you look at mine post on this forum you will read that I live half mile from company which make many type of ballistic products .Luckily , owner is my friend , so it's not hard for me to get a variety of materials ...like kevlar , titanium , armor plate steel , advanced ceramics ... SIS or WC plate .You know , they make same test with all this things ...........If WC or SIC is not enough hard to you ....What's up to me you can order diamond plate . .. :D
     
  9. Natlek

    Natlek

    Jun 9, 2015
    I apologize :thumbsup:
     
  10. DavidHoback

    DavidHoback If you see me posting, remind me to STFU & leave.

    326
    Dec 10, 2014
    Ok, well to everyone interested....

    I just spoke with a supplier. His name is Bill. He asked me for exact size (1/8"x2"x8") & and use. I explained the purpose to him. He is going to work up a price on machine finished(several thousandths oversized) in 10% Cobalt grade. Which will be the least expensive, but give the strength & wear we are looking for. He said there will be quantity discount. So fingers crossed! I'll let everyone know as soon as he gets back to me.
     
  11. Tin.Man

    Tin.Man

    849
    Sep 5, 2010
    Thanks for doing that! Can't wait
     
  12. KnuckleDownKnives

    KnuckleDownKnives Time to make the doughnuts..

    Feb 12, 2015
    Thanks, too bad I have a 12" platen.
     
  13. KnuckleDownKnives

    KnuckleDownKnives Time to make the doughnuts..

    Feb 12, 2015
    Thanks for the thread Matt. I was just asking about this back in January, and didn't get quite the turn out this thread has gotten. I think there were only 2 others that had previously looked into it that commented. JoshRG and JT. I'm sure if there is a market for it the sizes we knifemakers would use someone might be able to offer a somewhat reasonable price.

    I'm trying to reach out to a guy I used to work for in the thermal spray industry he says the number one coating being applied right now is tungsten carbide, or nickle chromium. I'm reaching out to him to find out what his take on doing a coating on a precision ground substrate (platen) would be cost wise VS. a carbide plate.
     
  14. DavidHoback

    DavidHoback If you see me posting, remind me to STFU & leave.

    326
    Dec 10, 2014
    Regardless, I'll still provide the info to you. They can make it 2"x12" also. They don't a quantity minimum. They will do ONE piece. Just waiting for price.
     
    KnuckleDownKnives likes this.
  15. KnuckleDownKnives

    KnuckleDownKnives Time to make the doughnuts..

    Feb 12, 2015
    It will be interesting to see what they price at. I just got a text back from my coatings buddy I used to work for. I'm calling tonight to discuss what cost effectiveness would be to HVOF or Plasma spray WCNiCr coating VS a tungsten carbide attached plate.
     
  16. tim37a

    tim37a

    958
    May 18, 2010
    Hey David,
    I'm interested in a price for 2 x 12 x 1/8.
    Tim
     
  17. fitzo

    fitzo

    Aug 14, 2001
    OT. Matt, next time you change pyroceram, include a few dabs of a metal-filled epoxy when you attach it to the base platen. It might help act as a ground.
     
  18. DavidHoback

    DavidHoback If you see me posting, remind me to STFU & leave.

    326
    Dec 10, 2014
    Here's what we have guys. My contact can do these. Size 1/8"x2"x8" platen. It is 10% cobalt grade and what they call "unground", which means several thousandths oversize. Individualy, they are $133.30. 2 would be $93.87, 5 would be $87.02 and if we get 20 or more, they are $83.59. Lead timewould be approx. 2 weeks from time of order.

    Not as bad as I thought. What thoughts? I'm still debating for the $133...but if we could get a 20 person group buy together, $83 sounds doable!
     
  19. DavidHoback

    DavidHoback If you see me posting, remind me to STFU & leave.

    326
    Dec 10, 2014
    If we can get at least 20 together guys, I would not mind heading a Group Buy. It would be easy for me, as I'm disabled. So I have the time. And I already have Bill-the contact.
     
  20. A.McPherson

    A.McPherson KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jan 27, 2012
    I'm in David!
     

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