combat knife throwing... I'm not kidding you

Discussion in 'Throwing Knives & Knife Throwing' started by CapitalizedLiving, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. DocJD

    DocJD

    Jan 29, 2016
    I just think this guy is sublime , beyond my understanding . But , If I wanted to throw cards , I'd try to understand his method .

    My orientation is much more crude and combat oriented . So a more massive missile is necessary . A heavy fixed or folder .
     
  2. Bmj246

    Bmj246

    17
    Jun 24, 2019
    I wouldn’t defend myself with cards unless they were the steel ones. Or maybe a credit card if I had thrown my last knife and ever had a credit card. Also thx I guess. Also I love sharp pointy things for throwing. Got a useable deadly combat application? Great! My pastor carries a switchblade to church and I usually want to carry some defensive object as well. I know tae kwon do but am only a green stripe so I don’t want to have to really depend on that. I can shoot a bow, throw a axe, and cards wooden stakes, frisbees so probly death disks(chakras?) working on my knife throwing, want to learn swordplay but the nearest instructor is an hour away. My best freind thinks I’m crazy. Like every teenage boy does et want to chuck deadly objects
     
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  3. Bmj246

    Bmj246

    17
    Jun 24, 2019
    I’m more concealed weapons. Pistol v cannon, pistol. Sword v 1 1/2 ft dagger? Dagger.
     
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  4. DocJD

    DocJD

    Jan 29, 2016
    My basis in martial arts was in college , in the '70's . Mainly hard style Okinawan karate , shorin- ryu . Later shotokan and tae kwon do .

    I never cared much for belts . I only wanted to do kumite / sparring to learn how to fight . Which I did for 30 or 40 yrs and was moderately good at it . :)

    Once you have mastered the basic skills and spirit of unarmed combat , the addition of weapons can increase effectiveness . :cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:

    The classic goal of the martial arts is in self knowledge and mastery , not in fighting with others . ;)
     
  5. Bmj246

    Bmj246

    17
    Jun 24, 2019
    My tae kwon do only does sticks not knives but it does so a lot of self defence
     
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  6. Bmj246

    Bmj246

    17
    Jun 24, 2019
    Honestly I could use some knife combat training other than watching utube vids however helpful they might be
     
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  7. DocJD

    DocJD

    Jan 29, 2016
    Master the unarmed and the additions of weapons will be relatively easy .
     
  8. Elijah Perry

    Elijah Perry

    3
    Jun 26, 2019
    I found that throwing files was a good alternative to knives because they are heavy and have a nice point were you would attach the handle, also very unassuming.
     
  9. DocJD

    DocJD

    Jan 29, 2016
    Welcome ! :)

    I would think that files might have a tendency to break , being usually hard but brittle ? :confused:
     
  10. CarpentryHero

    CarpentryHero

    15
    Aug 12, 2019
    I think this is a neat idea, practice throwing available objects incase you need too do so for self defence. I already practice no spin throwing flathead screw drivers into cardboard. I do this for fun, I think I’ll pick up a foam target from Canadian tire and practice throwing my folding knife too (one of my budget knives)
    Not so much as a plan for self defence but an extra tool in the arsenal of options if I can’t just run away
     
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  11. zzyzzogeton

    zzyzzogeton

    Feb 17, 2013
    I'm into conventional spin, half-spin, no-spin knife throwing and hawk, hatchet, axe and double-bit axe throwing. If it can be thrown, I throw it, including screw drivers and hammers.

    Back when I was still working corporate America job, they had a "no weapons" policy, which included knives. I got around that by being on the corporate first responder team and had knives hanging on my response belt and bag... but they weren't really very good for much other than cutting, and if a former disgruntled co-worker or a current co-worker wigged out (very possible in a tech support call center setting), not much use in distance defense.

    Since I could/can hit and stick a 15 ounce Bowie out to 7 meters, I figured I could easily hit the chest or back of an active shooter if necessary, so...

    I cut some 3/16" x 2" mild steel flat iron into 15" rectangles and painted them various colors with labels reading "Paper Weight 1", "Paper Weight 2", etc. I had a dozen, 4 or 5 on my desk holding papers down and the rest were in a drawer, along with a couple of hammers and large adjustable wrenches. I figured if necessary, I could throw the chunks of steel rotationally and at least hit the shooter. If I got luck I might hit him in the head with a pound of steel.

    In a defensive setting, anything that you can throw at the shooter that disrupts his shooting is a good thing. You might not survive, but the delays you cause MAY allow someone else to escape.

    I would always prefer taking an M1911 to a knife fight, but sometimes you just have to make do with what you have available.

    And if your boss doesn't approve of large paper weights, just keep a few cans of chili or SpaghettiO's in your desk drawer for emergency chunking.:D
     
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  12. DocJD

    DocJD

    Jan 29, 2016
    :) Nice to see some others on my wavelength ! :p:thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
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  13. K Williams

    K Williams Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 17, 1998
    Check out the no-spin knives made by Flying Steel. Also, do a search on YouTube for "no-spin knife throwing".
     
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  14. Altreac

    Altreac

    3
    May 16, 2020
    Brand new here, realize this is an old conversation and am probably skipping self-intros and the likes.
    Been around the net a while, so I'm hoping the 'generic' rules of forums apply.

    Skipped to the end of this thread vice reading it, which is atypical for me, and I intend to read through it eventually.

    But I had a general break through today and I wanted to share and see if anyone may have thoughts.

    I must have been inspired by Thorn or something cause I've been messing around with no flip since probably 2011, 2012 like many of you I'm assuming.

    I've been playing with the concepts of throwing 'anything' as well as my EDC folders.

    I guess super quick background... I have an arm. I was a AAA baseball player at some point. But a catcher to boot. So I did a lot of snap throws from the shoulder, off my knees and the likes. So basically a developed throwing arm.

    Anyhow, one knife I enjoy carrying is the SOG Vision SV68. 155 grams.

    Been throwing on a board progressively harder within 5 feet. That's my max effective power range. I can throw further, but it's more decorative than effective.

    I've practiced multiple arm angles, over and underhand, cross body etc. Where possible supinated and antisupinated. (lol, can't throw anti-supinated overhand, wrists just don't move that way...)

    But anyhow. A couple cooler target throws and a couple skewer toys I was playing with. Never could get a wooden skewer into a wooden plank, even weighted with electrical tape. Throws well enough... But the hardness just isn't there.

    The ones I'm really showing off are my throws with the SOG today. I'd been progressively throwing harder to try split the board. (1" thick, dry).

    The throw before pictured, the tip barely showed on the back of the board. A touch more force the next throw and the board split. (I probably hit an existing crack with this first split). But the board blew in half. That's why the knife is sticking on one part nowhere near the crack, I just stuck it there for the pic.

    But after the board split. I tried again with the larger of the two chunks... Put a bit more 'umph' behind this one. And in a new, much less weak spot... I pretty much split the board again. 75% of the board was split and fully came apart when I withdraw the blade.

    My arms messed these days, but I can still throw a baseball 60 mph. (Use up throw 88). With no flip, I'm not exactly sure how that translates. But I believe it's a much better force ratio than any rotational throwing.

    The pic with the SOG embedded nearly to the thumb stud is in about 3.25" at that point along the spine. 1.75" of the blade side with the serrations went in. But some of that passed through planting the spine side.
    And if you see on the back, it's almost fully split.

    I still haven't formulated a full opinion on whether a blade works in self defence situations... But it's only 2 seconds for me to draw, open and throw hard enough to split a board now. That's not nothing I think.

    https://1drv.ms/f/s!Anj1ZjnfhV3qoGRjmFrV5I6Uh753

    Dave
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
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  15. DocJD

    DocJD

    Jan 29, 2016
    Welcome !

    Interesting first post .

    Yes , indeed , it would help if you would read the rest of the thread . Just to get on the same page .

    I'm in a minority that takes combat throwing somewhat seriously .

    But not to use alone to end a fight . Could work like that but I wouldn't count on it .

    I see it mostly as a distraction to give you time to run or close in to finish up .
     
  16. Altreac

    Altreac

    3
    May 16, 2020
    I'm definitely interested, so I will indeed read the thread. 6 pages isn't bad at all.

    Was absolutely excited about splitting a board a few times with a folding knife.

    I did it another time after my post.

    Edited it a bit now for clarity.

    I did read a bit in the beginning and caught some of the general theme.
    Like I said, definitely haven't decided a stance on combat throwing, and 5 feet isn't 'really' that far .

    But in the background. 2 seconds is and isn't a lot depending on state of initiative vs reflexive response time.

    I will say I'm interested in the concept of effectively applying combat throwing, whether it be as a distraction or finale, but currently wouldn't be my 'go to'.

    Even after 8, 9 years, I'm still learning and it's more a fun concept.

    But still. I split boards today with a folding knife. And I'm pretty pleased with myself.

    I honestly don't normally go out of my way to post anything these days.

    Appreciate the welcome.

    Dave
     
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  17. Altreac

    Altreac

    3
    May 16, 2020
    Afternoon folks,

    So I spent the morning and read the thread through and I'd like to expand a bit of my background, experience and training.

    For background:

    I mentioned I was a AAA baseball catcher.
    Kinda to justify my atypical throwing development and ability to track fast moving objects.
    Also was a provincial class swimmer. My primary coach was a kinesiologist. His wife, a co-coach, but primary for a different age group coached the 2k Olympics for team Canada.
    High school, I qualified for an 'Exceptional Athletics Program' due to swimming and baseball. Grade 9 - skeleton, 10 - muscles, origin / insertions etc, 11 - Basic Physiology/Energy systems (lactic / alactic, aerobic /anaerobic etc), 12 - Intro to kinesiology.
    Mom = currently a cardiology instructor at a prestigious Canadian Medical College, but also was a critical care labour and delivering nurse for 3.5 decades. (got qualified as cardiology instructor during that time).
    Growing up, being into IT as well, I learned a lot when I was fixing her PowerPoints or Word docs etc. (Stuff like deriving hypertrophic tachycardia etc).

    I've practiced 3 marital arts over the last 20+ years.

    I'm currently in the process of being medically released from the Canadian Armed Forces Signal Corps. Been Reg Force for 11 years.

    I guess just to compliment anatomy, I've in the past been a qualified National Lifeguard Service Instructor and a Standard First Aid Instructor.

    My overall philosophy to marital arts and self defence goes like this:

    If possible, I will NEVER engage. Regardless of pride, I will ALWAYS attempt to flee.
    Given no opportunity or denied the ability to escape, your only remaining option is to fight to defend yourself. The goal is to be able to safely extricate yourself from a bad situation as quickly as possible, incurring the minimum injury to oneself.
    To accomplish this ability of self extrication given its requisite you respond by unleashing the maximum hell you are capable of, producing (ideally) the maximum incapacitation of your attacker(s) and their inability for further grievance.

    This application requires cognizance of your own ability, your ability to gauge the threat of your opponent(s) and the actual aspects of technical combat.

    In my mind generic combat can be broken down into inertial transitions, combatants state of initiative and then the 'lines and arcs' governed by biomechanics possible, ruled by the interactions of time v initiative v inertial state.

    The rest for hand to hand is proficiency of strikes. Accuracy vs applied power and your overall ability to land said strikes. (Obviously, holding initiative is required, cause if you are not holding the initiative, you're mostly likely getting beaten up).

    Then compound further with detailed knowledge of anatomy and you can increase your effective power application ratio to locations of the body where their effect is greatest.

    But returning to the topic of the thread:

    I will absolutely accept that you can't throw a 'knife' (whatever) as hard as you can throw a baseball effectively.
    Way beyond biomechanics there is a highly significant psychological factor. When throwing a baseball if you put your full force behind it, throw it against a wall... There's a chance it'll come back and hit you. It'll hurt. But you know, realistically, it's not gonna hurt you too bad.
    I saw a pitcher take a softball line drive to the right ocular orbit one time... Collapsed his ocular cavity.
    But ya gotta understand, that was off a bat, at the distance of a pitchers mound to the plate. Additional force is being imparted by the batter. Baseballs deform significantly under pressure, losing a lot of force. So in the application of throwing against a static target, lacking the additive force from the batter, the rebound of a ball thrown against a target can only be so bad.

    At least with me, I throw pretty close. Like I said, I'm working at 5 feet.
    To get the penetration depths I've been getting, it requires a fairly true tip hit, but also a good bit of force.

    The thing with titanium clad steel in my case and most metals used for throwing in our application, there is a much higher spring factor.
    Throw a knife hard and it doesn't plant... It bounces pretty wild.

    I know personally, while practicing throwing harder and harder... Sometimes I miss. Sometimes you over or under rotate.
    And I've had blades spring straight back at both my neck and face hard enough that I think it could hurt me if they hit me.

    But to jump back to the top, as a catcher, I had to train myself to not flinch when 17 year old pitchers were hitting me with high 80s, occasionally low 90 mph fastballs.

    I've also developed a throw / no throw reflex from base runners.

    I'll have to disagree slightly with the concept that baseball doesn't translate to some degree. Some of the core tenants are the same.

    Most, for example, throwing anything, are taught to point your leading toe at where you want to throw.

    Rotator cuff flexibly etc.

    I know I can't throw a knife 'under control' when I throw past a certain velocity where I could a baseball. But I'm, just by feeling, hitting maybe 70% ish power, and now starting to split boards.

    In terms of the application I've been training no flip throwing for so long is multi part.
    A) I'm in Canada. No concealed carry.
    B) I EDC a folder normally.
    C) I am trying to see what kind of viability there could be realistically, mostly for interests sake.
    D) It's fun!

    Joerg Sprave from YouTube, The Sling Shot Channel has done a collab with a well recorded no flip thrower (would have to recheck the name - forgive my ignorance, it's Adam Celedin in the video).
    They do tests on a ballistic gelatin covered coconut to good effect.

    My more specific thoughts are though. If I learn how to throw with reasonable power from multiple arm angles, if I'm using the knife as a static hand weapon and an opportunity I've practiced arises, who knows, at the point in time, it could happen.

    But, at least until my proficiency greatly increases, I won't be carrying extra blades for the purpose of applying combat throwing .

    I'll keep throwing. I EDC a blade.
    *shrug*

    I just rather enjoy throwing pointy stuff into stuff. Lol.

    I added another few pics to my linked album .
    After I destroyed that board all I've got left at the moment is 3/4" plywood. It's a bit harder to stick it.
    I took an old bike gel seat, screwed it into the plywood and put a hunk of the cracked board behind the gel.

    5', from a single knee down (for angle, cause I'm throwing in my living room). There are 3 steel screws holding the gel seat up. The center of the seat is pretty worn out. So it took me a few tries to hit the thick part of the gel seat and avoid the screws. (None missed too far, just didn't plant where I wanted to image).

    The gel is probably 1.5" thick where I hit.
    The blade tip went through the gel, board and a tiny part of the tip was in the plywood.

    I'm really getting the vibe that correctly executed, combat style throwing can produce effective enough force within the range of your projectile for serious penetration, but the converse is the actual execution in a real world scenario is still mostly hypothetical and not easily practicable. Probabilities aren't good real world.

    Honestly, I hope that's never spot I'm in.

    As a final anecdote to close.
    In high school, 16 years old. I'd hiked over to the local pizza shop for lunch.
    Walking back to the school with my pizza and two friends, 5 dudes came up and started giving us hard time.
    I'll just say an extra large slice of hot pizza thrown at someone's face has quite an effective result. And the confusion (and screaming) let my friends get safely back to the school.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2020

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