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Companies need to start issuing verified third-party HRC tests.

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Comeuppance, Jun 27, 2019.

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  1. Bob6794

    Bob6794

    Apr 21, 2013
    Just saw the spreadsheet with the color coded setup. It may be just me but I would argue it looks good. Most were within spec or margin of error of the machine. And a few less than steller companies dropped the ball completely.

    I would make one more change a color for being above the HRC but within margin of error of machine, just like the yellow. And one color well above that, I'm thinking purple for this as only a few knives fall under this that would require a change.
     
  2. Danke42

    Danke42

    Feb 10, 2015
    As an observation; trying to shame or draw out an Italian company (AKA Lionsteel) on social media etc. about them not meeting your expectations isn't going to work out well.
     
  3. Banter 247

    Banter 247

    374
    Feb 22, 2019
    My suggestion in-group has been to third party verify, then inform companies directly, regarding extreme low outliers. Once they’ve had a chance to respond, then post those results. Part of that has been to cut off the meme blitz.

    I can’t speak for everyone involved, but I haven’t made any pointed memes. I get tagged in them when people post them.
     
  4. miso2

    miso2 Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 19, 2014
    I am not a metallurgist but still a scientist.
    If someone reports some wild values (relevant to my field of study) obtained from unidentified machines, which may or may not be calibrated, used in a uncertain test environment with unknown test procedures, I would probably just scoff at them.
     
    danbot, palonej, steff27 and 2 others like this.
  5. Eli Chaps

    Eli Chaps Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 20, 2018
    palonej, miso2, steff27 and 2 others like this.
  6. Insipid Moniker

    Insipid Moniker Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 28, 2011
    orangejoe35, craytab, palonej and 3 others like this.
  7. Danke42

    Danke42

    Feb 10, 2015
    They wish it was egg.
     
    craytab, Quiet, Mecha and 1 other person like this.
  8. Snipe 1

    Snipe 1

    140
    Apr 21, 2006
    Well, at least these guys got a bunch of views and likes on their Youtube channels...
     
  9. PirateSeulb

    PirateSeulb Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 6, 2017
    I didn't think the initial testing was bad but I wasn't one to readily believe these companies were doing anything intentionally out of spec. I took most of the results from reputable manufactures, at least prior to this over blown mess, to be exceptions to the norm instead of indication of foul play. I am surprised by the turn of events as I expected a mistake in a batch and some misreadings from the testing but this just puts it all on the individual testing that had been done.
     
  10. miso2

    miso2 Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 19, 2014
    Quiet likes this.
  11. Banter 247

    Banter 247

    374
    Feb 22, 2019
    The testers (our guy and Peters) use the same methodology, confirmed calibration, etc, matched results on other samples, and were only out of alignment on the Dom.

    I’m not reading anything about the Dom into that. It’s simply what happened.

    That same day, 64 was 64 (Manix in M4), and so on.
     
    Mo2 likes this.
  12. Insipid Moniker

    Insipid Moniker Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 28, 2011
    Honestly, given that, I would say it looks a lot worse for 'your guy' than it does for Lionsteel. That's a huge discrepancy and if all the testing is lining up except on one specific brand of knife it makes me rather strongly question the motivations of the person doing the testing.
     
    craytab likes this.
  13. miso2

    miso2 Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 19, 2014
    Yeah, but still it can differ by 10 units (20 µm depth difference) on an individual sample, and we don't know the source of the offset.
    It is a good thing to know.

    So, it is probably irrelevant to speak about a single measurement or an outlier as in general science, unless it is found in multiple samples or verified by multiple measurements and preferably using multiple different methods.

    There are makers who own and use hardness testers in house.
    I guess I just have to trust the maker of my choice and take the face value the maker provides for the hardness.
    And judge with the performance of the product.
     
    Mecha likes this.
  14. Banter 247

    Banter 247

    374
    Feb 22, 2019
    We’re in alignment here. Outliers definitely need further testing before reporting.
     
  15. miso2

    miso2 Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 19, 2014
    Since it has been public already, it might be nice if the original YouTube poster submits a follow up video saying that the value has not been confirmed in a different facility at the moment.
    Also, the google docs list should have a disclaimer that the values are based on single specimens.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  16. Banter 247

    Banter 247

    374
    Feb 22, 2019
    His video is going up very shortly, if it isn’t already up. Disclaimer isn’t a bad idea.
     
    miso2 likes this.
  17. Mo2

    Mo2

    Apr 8, 2016
    Lololol

    You got to be kidding.
    Everything else lines up and you think he's out to get lionsteel. Lol. I mean he tried multiple times cause it was hard to believe. Then he took it to Peter's to test it and you still think it's foul play. Seriously what's wrong with you. Even Peter's wants to have it tested again by another 3rd party because they are both doing it right.

    Just put you on ignore. I can't be bothered to read some of the things you post.

    Hope you know a machine did the results and not the person. Ltk was the only one that got all pissed and didn't wait for more testing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  18. miso2

    miso2 Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 19, 2014
    Looks like the original video is removed?
    Or may be under revision.

    Anyway, to me, that rant was prematurely and unnecessarily posted, so it is a good thing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
    Banter 247 likes this.
  19. Pàdruig

    Pàdruig Live and Let Die Platinum Member

    Dec 1, 2016
    When this is the basis of your response and you otherwise can't be bothered to address some rather pertinent points that are being brought up (summing it up as "hand holding"), you do whatever credibility you might have had a real disservice. I don't know you from "Adam" but you continue to make claims without backing them up with evidence, which has been repeatedly asked for.

    In the other thread, you attack a member of our community who is in good standing, post a ridiculous Instagram link in an attempt to bolster your claims, and then expect that we shouldn't demand something considerably more concrete? You aren't really batting a thousand here, are ya?

    The conversation, sans attacking dealers and such, could be productive and interesting. But I have a real problem with members who seem to think they can get away with attacking good folks. Here, YouTube, Instagram or wherever else.

    (And for the record: That Instagram post was simply a screenshot of a comment of Mike's with a bunch of idiots trashing him.)
     
    craytab and Insipid Moniker like this.
  20. Mo2

    Mo2

    Apr 8, 2016
    Lol really. Honestly if your going to take Mike's recent post as 100% validity when he wasn't even there between two men, why is he even making a post on it. He was not there.
     
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