Corona virus face masks

Discussion in 'Outdoor Gear, Survival Equipment & More' started by vic2367, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. robgmn

    robgmn

    Oct 30, 2015
    This country is in a civil war of intelligent versus stupid.
    And stupid seems to be winning.

    Am I the only one who is amazed at the sheer volume of non-doctors that exist who seem to know far more than all the doctors, the CDC, and scientists combined? It's like everyone is suddenly working in the wrong profession.

    My thoughts:
    1. Wear an effing mask you idiots.
    2. Quit your whining and believing your bullsh** theories or The Great Orange Idiot in lieu of recognizing that scientists and doctors know facts and can back up what they say.
    3. Recognize that conspiracies and conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones are for morons. Accept that you are a moron if you believe in them or people like him.
    4. Unless you can back up your feelings or beliefs with proof, they ain't worth the electricity it took to fire your synapses, and they have no value whatsoever.
    5. If you claim you are a "patriot" and refuse to wear a mask, you spelled "traitor" wrong.

    I could go on, but it'd become redundant.
    Be part of the solution, not the problem.
     
    AntDog, Rhinoknives1, Shotgun and 3 others like this.
  2. Scott Free

    Scott Free

    Sep 15, 1999
    My guess is that this thread about "gear" will soon be moved to Political or will be closed. It should not have taken this political turn—especially for a safety item that is also mandated for some of us. This thread would be better served if those who are opposed to masks would vent their frustrations in the Political forum, and not here.
     
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  3. Sid Post

    Sid Post

    Oct 14, 1998
    From personal experience, I can tell you a cloth bandanna doesn't block pollen but apparently is the answer to Coronavirus. o_O

    To be honest, the paper masks and homemade cloth masks may look nice for Coronavirus theater but, EVEN IF they are worn correctly aren't going to block Coronavirus unless it is attached to spit or snot being spewed. If someone is yelling and discharging spit or sneezing or coughing, I'm not relying on a cloth mask, I'M PUTTING DISTANCE BETWEEN MYSELF AND THEM!

    Again, I'll reiterate that my best protection is staying on my farm and limiting my trips into town.

    Even with P95 filters on my 3M mask, I'm not confident it will really protect me in a crowded situation. I'm not working healthcare so, my concerns are a bit different than many. I also don't interact with Seniors or otherwise health compromised people.

    Health risks from Coronavirus are not the same for all population groups! All you need to do is listen to the good doctors on the President's briefings on this subject. Whether you do or don't respect President Trump, the doctors on his team have been preparing for events like this for a very long time across multiple Presidencies. ;)
     
  4. Sid Post

    Sid Post

    Oct 14, 1998
    I'll give you that. Watching college kids at the beach and bars is classic. Lower risk group but, with enough exposure the risk will be realized. There are a lot of college kids now suffering with Coronavirus thanks to a total lack of common sense.

    And, yes for some risk groups, stupid does seem to be winning for both sides of the more extreme response groups to Coronavirus. The real answer is somewhere in the middle, not at the extremes IMHO.

    No cloth or paper mask is as good as physical separation. On the flip side, some risk groups are at very little risk from exposure. Again, I'm not a senior in a nursing home and I'm not a grade schooler either. The risk to each of those groups and mine is not the same!
     
  5. robgmn

    robgmn

    Oct 30, 2015
    I appreciate your reasonable approach and response to this, but your post spells out one of the great misconceptions regarding masks: They are actually worn to reduce the transmission from an infected to a non-infected person, NOT to prevent a non-infected person from getting it (like a dust mask is used).
    It's the same reason surgeons wear them when they are digging around in you. It's NOT to keep them from catching a germ from inside of you, but to keep them from exhaling germs into your internals.

    This is an interesting video that shows the efficacy of even a simple cloth mask. I'm sure there will be folks who claim the video is CGI created by someone who is part of the great conspiracy to control the population, but I'd bet a silver dollar it's genuine. Interesting stuff:
     
  6. Sid Post

    Sid Post

    Oct 14, 1998
    If I'm sick, I'm staying home. Hopefully, other people would do the same.

    For a mask that doesn't protect me from pollen, will it really protect others from my breath and Coronavirus if I am unknowingly infected?

    The P95 filters I have are designed to protect me from the outside world, not the outside world from myself. When I inhale, the outside air goes through the filter, when I exhale the valve opens and exhausts into the atmosphere.

    A cloth or paper mask might work a bit differently in practice but, it certainly doesn't have the filtering capacity of my 3M P95 mask. And, my concern is from the outside world with idiots going to bars and beaches, not myself infecting other people because I know my exposure risk and health status, with a very low probability of being infected without symptoms.

    So for me, wearing a cosmetic mask is really theatric, not true protection from the virus. If sick people without sick leave weren't forced to work to pay rent and to put food on the table, and the high-risk groups stayed out of the public, infection rates would be declining.

    Is it really surprising to see a Coronavirus spike in Texas after the July 4th holiday with huge parties of binge drinkers at a bar and others crowded on the beach getting a tan? Did any of them quartine to determine if they were infected? Irresponsible things like that are a big part of the reason a second wave of lockdowns is needed.
     
  7. stabman

    stabman Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 17, 2007
    They don't.
    In my last job, and the one before that, people thought they were some sort of employee hero showing up to work when sick.
    They would seriously brag about it, some of them.

    Also, in most jobs I've had, if you DIDN'T show up because you were sick, not only did you not get paid for that day, you also got targeted to lose your job. You were a bad employee, and they would start looking for some reason to let you go. Since I don't care the most about money, I stayed home when sick for the most part.

    The issue with this stupid virus is that many people who are infected don't feel symptoms; how do you know to stay home when you DON'T feel sick? Yet you can still spread it...

    Here masks are mandatory now to go in stores, and finally mandatory on the bus. Unless you have health issues that prevent it...and they aren't allowed to ask for proof, or even what illness you might have which prevents it...we're doomed. :D
     
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  8. Sid Post

    Sid Post

    Oct 14, 1998
    Yes, there are some really bad managers that exacerbate issues like this. The worst for me were family-owned and run businesses. Junior who didn't have a clue and a terrible work ethic who was lucky enough to be born into a family with a good business and didn't work a real day in their life thought they knew it all and made life miserable for all the employees until his/her parents died and they finally ran the business into the ground and ended it all in bankruptcy. :confused:

    As noted in my post above, penalizing employees who in good faith stay home due to illness SHOULD NOT BE PENALIZED or OSTRACIZED. I know I'm dreaming. Even the USPS job I had was pretty bad with issues like this even with the bureaucracy to make it hard to fire someone. Where do you think the term "going postal" came from? :eek:

    Being sick without symptoms to me is where "herd immunity" comes into play. If everyone is acting in good faith, the few people who are infected with no symptoms will make some people sick but, the overall numbers should be relatively low so it won't overwhelm health resources like the recent July 4th Coronavirus parties, overcrowded beaches, and various drunk fests have.

    Mandatory masks are a step in the right direction to a certain extent but, the rules where I live ARE NOT BEING ENFORCED. The local law enforcement officials around here say they aren't the healthcare enforcers so, they won't issue the $500~$2500 fines to anyone. Personally, I want my police to spend their time stopping drunk drivers, property crime, assaults, robberies, murders, etc. not issuing tickets for health code violations. Isn't that what the health department is for?

    Again, I feel like redirecting police towards healthcare theatre by a talking head politician is not a step in the right direction.
     
    stabman likes this.
  9. stabman

    stabman Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 17, 2007
    Quite true.
     
  10. robgmn

    robgmn

    Oct 30, 2015
    1. If you watch the video in my post, you'll see that the answer can absolutely be a yes. In the same way sneezing our coughing into a tissue or your elbow (with sleeves) can slow the spread of the rinovirus, even a simple cloth mask will do the same.

    2. So if you're infected with no symptoms, you are exhaling unfiltered to atmosphere with your particular mask. Now imagine this scenario: 50/100 people are infected. The 50 infected are wearing your mask. The others are wearing the cloth mask. Now, the 50 infected are spreading the virus by not filtering their exhaust.
    It's kind of the obverse of what you'd want. Much like taking the catalytic converter off of cars and having to put air scrubbers on the highway instead.
    It makes more sense to stop or reduce the spread at the source instead of people having to protect themselves while people spread rampantly (hence quarantine).
     
    Shotgun likes this.
  11. Sid Post

    Sid Post

    Oct 14, 1998
    My exposure risk in rural East Texas is very limited. When I buy groceries or prescriptions, my contacts with other people are very few and far between. 6 feet of separation could be 60 most places I go for essentials (milk, prescriptions, and similar).

    If I lived in Dallas or some other high-density area, I see a need to do things differently. I haven't seen 100 people since all of this started where I live so, again my risk of exposure from or to others is very limited. I know of no one personally who has had Coronavirus. In fact, it was last month when our countywide infection numbers exceeded 10. In the last 30 days, we have gone to ~40 cases in total. So, in the context of where I live, Flu this past year so far has been worse.

    As I live alone and don't have access to public transportation, that is also a factor. If I lived somewhere with a high population density, public transportation, and, all the related things then my personal risk goes way up and I would see things differently. Putting a one size fits all nationwide plan in place for a Coronavirus lockdown, school closures, etc. doesn't make much sense to me. Each geographic area has different conditions that need to be taken into account. It's almost like asking someone in rural West Texas to make traffic law for New York City while Chicago makes local traffic law for West Texas. The one size fits all model tends to lead to a lot of pushback starting from places where it doesn't make much sense and then migrates to other areas where it may really be needed.

    So, when I go into my local drug store to get my Prescriptions, whether I wear a mask or not is not significant when I am the only customer in the place since there is a hard barrier between me and the pharmacist. In Dallas, I'm sure things would be much different and I would feel the need to wear a mask as that is a much different scenario. Again, what is appropriate for one person may not be appropriate for everyone.

    Nationwide mandates for Coronavirus measures also overlooks other negative effects. Ignoring the economic damages to families and businesses, what about people with pre-existing medical conditions? Do they get dialysis when needed? Or, stoke care when needed? How about blood donations for people going to the Emergency Room for traffic accidents? The Coronavirus debate focus on a small subset of issues while overlooking others. How many people who have missed preventative health screenings are going to suffer a cancer, heart attack, or some other preventable issue?

    So, while we can argue the merits of wearing a mask, wearing it properly, etc. there are other issues just as significant that are being totally overlooked IMHO. How about the elderly people in a farmhouse in East Texas? Has anyone even seen them in the last few weeks? Are they even still alive? Without social contact, depression, domestic abuse, and suicides are also likely outcomes. So, at the risk of some additional Coronavirus infections, at some point, it may be worthwhile to lift some restrictions and suffer some additional infections so other bad outcomes are prevented.
     
  12. marchone

    marchone Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 13, 2013
    I'll double down. This isn't hard, folks.

    Mask type efficacy

    Single layer cotton tea towel 60%
    Surgical mask 78.6%
    N95 98.9%

    Ohio Army veteran who refused to wear face mask dies of COVID-19

    https://nypost.com/2020/07/13/ohio-army-vet-who-refused-to-wear-face-mask-dies-of-coronavirus/
     
    WValtakis likes this.
  13. Shotgun

    Shotgun

    Feb 3, 2006
    We also have a problem with narcissists who think wearing a mask is about preventing THEM from getting this disease.

    I worked in shipping and receiving in a place with huge amounts of fine silicon particulates and vast amounts of hazardous chemicals. I shipped hazmat. I’m certified up the wazoo on respirators and NONE OF THAT APPLIES fellas. It’s not the same. You ever watch a surgery? Do any of the doctors don full on respirators to prevent their respiration from infecting their patients? Not that I can see. Do you guys in your blue collar jobs think you know more about infectious disease then millions of doctors who spent years studying medicine? Really?

    Also to the guy that thinks he’ll just stay home when he feels sick. You can be infectious BEFORE symptoms start. You can even have this disease and be infectious WITHOUT EVER GETTING SYMPTOMS. If you were only infectious after you show symptoms then even cavemen would have figured out to kill the one with the sniffles to protect the tribe. That reasoning doesn’t apply either.

    I love you guys but the level of willful ignorance displayed here and in some parts of the country is astounding. I can’t stop you from endangering others. I can only sit back and watch people die.

    To those of you who think this is political...you've fallen for the “divide and conquer strategy”(which is straight up “I don’t give an f for you peasants” propaganda) that politicians and political hacks have been pushing. There’s no sides here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
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  14. Sid Post

    Sid Post

    Oct 14, 1998
    When my county had a whopping 7 cases of Coronavirus after several months, the risk of contracting Coronavirus for me was extremely low. Add to that, the fact I live alone on a rural farm on a county road and only go to town once or twice a week for milk and eggs, and my mail.

    Now, things are a bit different after Spring break and Coronavirus parties. To be honest, I really don't expect a simple paper mask or a bandanna do much to prevent me from inhaling some Coronavirus. What it does do is prevent the ignorant from coughing and sneezing (or simply ranting) their Coronavirus laced spit and mucus from three aisles away.

    So, today I generally wear a mask if I'm around other people in public for THEIR safety and peace of mind. I have no illusions about the ignorant trying to expose me to Coronavirus so I have the luxury to pick when and where I shop so I go when the stores are slow or nearly empty.

    For all the ignorant, I say let Darwinism have its way! Please don't take grandma or grandpa with you to the cemetery.

    Now, to find a mask that doesn't' fog my glasses up ...

    And, for those you that haven't tried one yet, the neck gaiters are really nice! I like the fact they keep the sun off my neck and are much easier to wear in public versus a paper mask. Personally, I tend to think my Bandanna "mask" is better protection than the paper filter masks but, I also have no illusion about its protection from Coronavirus.

    A homemade cloth or cheap paper mask is nowhere near what an N95 mask is so, even if you are wearing a stylish mask, your best option is physical separation for Coronavirus protection.
     
    marchone likes this.
  15. Mannlicher

    Mannlicher

    Nov 19, 2008
    This has always been a political crisis, not a public health health crisis. The infection rates, death rates and the figures on testing have been chronically misrepresented. The economy has been devastated. Millions put out of work. Time to put a stop to this.
     
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  16. Sid Post

    Sid Post

    Oct 14, 1998
    Politics on both sides have made this more devastating than it really needed to be IMHO. The political bias in current social media is astounding. It is almost as bad as Google employees refusing to work with US D.O.D. contracts but are happy to help the PRC's military dominate the world.

    Even the Scandanavian countries are feeling the political heat from EU member states.

    When you look at Obesity-related deaths in the USA versus Coronavirus, I wonder why you don't see any effort to address food deserts and related societal issues that lead many people down this horrible path with all the negative outcomes of being morbidly obese.

    Then you also have the politics of why it is fine to have open borders for illegal aliens while there are Coronavirus roadblocks so you can fill out your travel itinerary and have unannounced visits by the police to make sure you are properly isolated and wearing your mask.

    Also, why is it okay for a mob burning and looting to gather in large groups but, I can't sit at a public park picnic table with three of my friends?

    Regarding Coronavirus parties, I say let Darwinism have its way. Local media made a big deal out of the guy that won the jackpot for being the first guest to catch Cornonavirus but, I wonder if the small amount of money he won was worth it since this young man died.

    Masks have their places in some situations but, the obsessive focus on them at the exclusion of other things by many people and politicians only makes things worse. There is more to good Coronavirus prevention than a paper mask.

    What will the politicians do to reduce the effects of job loss, a slowing GDP, and massive public debt with many families looking at homelessness and hunger with no reasonable job prospects? I hope the politicians in power can come up with a better idea than simply raising taxes and further economic hardship on struggling families.
     
    Mannlicher likes this.
  17. Mossyhorn

    Mossyhorn Enlightened Rogue Gold Member

    Dec 6, 2009
    Take those worthless deposable mask and dispose them. If a mask doesn't fit tight on your face, it won't do you any good. I found a 48 pack of Gildan triple layer cotton masks with ties that I'd recommend to anyone. I thread the ties through a 3/16" O ring and tie a knot at the end. That way it's fully adjustable.
     
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  18. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 20, 2005
    The main thing is to practice social distancing as much as possible. Don't touch or allow yourself to be touched by other people. Wash your hands frequently and immediately after being around other people like shopping.

    The disposable masks are mostly worthless, but they seem to make people feel good.
     
    Sid Post likes this.
  19. Shotgun

    Shotgun

    Feb 3, 2006
    (CNN)A 7-year-old Georgia boy who died of Covid-19 attended a Chatham County church where two elderly members had died after testing positive for the coronavirus, according to county Coroner Bill Wessinger.

    He had no underlying conditions and still died. All they had to do was watch a livestream to get their church fix. And that’s if they can’t read or aren’t smart enough to understand the Bible themselves. Hint: don’t be a jerk. There. I did your church for this week.

    To think a pandemic is political means you’ve fallen for it. You’ve bought into propaganda. Personally, I don’t buy that argument for a second. I think I’m listening to a bunch of kids saying “I don’t wanna!” Every argument you guys throw out immediately falls apart because you’re telling us what you believe and think anyone outside of your echo chamber will buy it. Reality doesn’t give a crap what you believe. It’s irrelevant. The facts are that wearing a mask and socially distancing helps protect people. Just wear a damn mask! It’s not hard. I believe you guys can do it.

    Let me know if you want me to load up the thread with more dead people. I’ll warn you though, listening to how people die without their loved ones might ruin your day. You gotta care first though so maybe it won’t. Gotta make that money ammirite. The economy is more important than people. ‘Murica!:confused:

    My grandparents went through the Great Depression and ww2. They did without basics and the idea that the people of this country today can’t even do the simplest, most basic of things like put a piece of fabric over their damn face or refrain from their need to socialize in person or go on vacation is disgusting. Weak AF.

    Edited to add ”in person” because while socializing is very important, it is after all the 21st century. You all have phones and computers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
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  20. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 20, 2005
    If you are subject to allergies and sneezing, wear a mask. I prefer the three layer cloth medical type of mask versus the N95's. I have both.

    Wearing masks when you're around people has become almost ubiquitous with a few holdouts. Outdoors.... practice social distancing unless you are protesting/rioting a political cause of course. No rules then.

    What mask do you edc? ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020

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