CPK Boot Daggers

Discussion in 'Carothers Performance Knives' started by TRfromMT, Aug 27, 2020.

  1. Hard Knocks

    Hard Knocks Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 1, 2012
    Mine finally rolled in yesterday after having been hung up in TN for most of the month. Hope yours lands today, they're extremely nice!
     
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  2. Brummie

    Brummie Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 13, 2007
    I think the sheath stud originated for use with a sash, which would have probably covered the stud and prevented the sheath moving up or down. But it can also rest on top of a belt or waistband, and a frog gives the option for regular belt carry.
     
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  3. SpyderPhreak

    SpyderPhreak Rocketman for hire Platinum Member

    Apr 13, 2004
    Carried mine right proper for Christmas. :cool: :thumbsup:

    IMG_6592.jpg

    IMG_6593.jpg
     
  4. TRfromMT

    TRfromMT Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    ^^^That's what I'm talking about.
     
  5. WValtakis

    WValtakis Hand Engraving, Ti anodizing, and mods Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    May 29, 2004
    Meh...those don't look nearly as comfy as mine:p;)
     
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  6. Nathan the Machinist

    Nathan the Machinist KnifeMaker / Machinist / Evil Genius Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 13, 2007
    Idunno man, I think I might be more comfortable wearing those
     
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  7. WValtakis

    WValtakis Hand Engraving, Ti anodizing, and mods Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    May 29, 2004
    Come on man, embrace the Ugg Life :D

    m_5de97ca5d400089b278fb5db.jpg
     
  8. mb>

    mb> Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 24, 2014
    Ugg life yo! Lol. My boots stop at the hiking variety, but this thing does ride great IWB. Boot-tay dagger.
     
  9. madcap_magician

    madcap_magician Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 27, 2005
    My Chad Pirtle sheath finally arrived after doing two weeks of penance in USPS purgatory.

    With my Colt MPS-B and Eotech 512. Bonus Alan Folts Katanamalist.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. TRfromMT

    TRfromMT Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    [​IMG]

    Posted this in the leather thread, but posting here too. I'm planning to write a bit of a review on this sheath as I get some use with it.

    I swapped out the belt loop @duramax included for a mummert clip. I did not need a belt loop for r.h. carry. I will actually try to run this in my boot. Alternatively I want something that can swap to weak-side carry, handle forward at 11:00, inside the belt, peferably with one clip.

    First thing I notice is this is situated much higher than what I see on the Pirtle Made sheath. I specifically wanted this to ride lower. Checks that box.

    The ulticlip may be a better choice. @duramax tried to steer me that way. I may get one for comparison, but so far the mummert seems easy enough to use.

    It will be riding in my boot tomorrow. I'll follow up here with impressions.
     
  11. cpirtle

    cpirtle Leathercrafter Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Mar 28, 2001
    Great looking sheath!

    The problem you may run into running the Mummert up that high is that the area of leather covering the scales is going to press into the upper back of the clip. When you push the clip onto a belt, boot or waistband it is either going to block it from seating all the way, or if you press it down hard, the titanium will give and allow it to drop all the way but that lifts the foot of the clip and removes contact with the sheath preventing it from biting in. I have made spacers in the past that are L shaped and lift the clip for clearance but also provide a landing pad for the lower bite portion.

    Whatever you do don't heat it to bend it, if you want to do that bend it cold. Heat will flatten a Mummert out like a piece of paper, ask me how I know ;)

    The Mummert is unique in that it moves the balance point toward the center of the sheath, it's also an issue on ride height. Probably the reason Bill suggested the UltiClip for deeper carry is the same reason I do.. they are an in-line clip and can be dropped quite deep independent of the leather. They're also not nearly as nice looking which means more to different people.

    Either way that's a winning combo, love the tooling!
     
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  12. duramax

    duramax KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 29, 2012
    @cpirtle ,

    Thank you !!!! :) Always willing to hear advice from others. I sent out about 4 or 5 test fit sheaths for these BD. Tony has the first and an updated version of it. Those updates came from some of his observations on sheath one. Tony has a great eye for detail as you can see by his handles !!! So poor Tony got bombarded by sheaths lol :) I don’t think he saw it coming either lol :) Thank you Tony !! You’ve been really great with this.

    First I’m not a huge fan of the mummert clip but that is just me. Love the DC clips and ulti’s :)
    Although the mummert clips are pretty and are well liked. They make a good option for carry.

    So, I do see what you are saying about carry with mummert clip. Knowing that one was going to be tested on there. I tried to keep the front of the sheath as flat as possible. I pushed as much of the molding of the leather on the back side. Still the ulti clip is better fit on there;) :) sorry I like them :p lol :)
    I can see how the L shaped pad of leather would work( wish I thought of that:p) great idea.

    We use to carry a radio at work on the belt that had a similar clip design. Dang thing had same issues you mention. You had to make sure that clip grabbed belt edge. Even still at times moving fast or sitting into car it would pop off !!! So one of us at work came up with a tether strap for it.

    I have to say you come up with awesome ideas. I don’t think there’s anyone else out there like you. That pushes advancements in leather. You build great leather sheaths, attachments , designs !

    Thank you for the kind words and your advice :) !!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
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  13. TRfromMT

    TRfromMT Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    I have the clip on some thick rubber grommets as a standoff from the leather. Solved that issue, but otherwise I can absolutely see the problem it would create.
     
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  14. duramax

    duramax KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 29, 2012
    I like it !!!!! Good eye ;):D
     
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  15. TRfromMT

    TRfromMT Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    I spent the day with the boot dagger on board. Riding inside my right cowboy boot in the leather from @duramax and a Mummert clip. Me with a covert carry knife is the height of silly, but this knife deserves to be on board. My daughter this morning saw me putting this in my boot and was very intrigued why I would do that. She thought it was neat, but also asked, "Do you still have your pocket knife you can get to quick if you need to?"

    So a bit of a review on the leather by @duramax. I am putting this in this thread because it is specific to the boot dagger....

    Functionality and retention:
    This is the second 'prototype' (* see below) sheath Bill sent me to mess around with. The first one was a single layer front and back of some thicker leather and the mouth went up higher on the handles. This made the knife difficult to draw because all you can grip is the back end of the handle that tapers off pretty thin. The first one also had a mediocre fit around the blade and rattled once the mouth loosened up a bit. We discussed some changes and this is the result. This version is from some thinner leather panels and is lined. Even as a prototype, the construction is outstanding! Retention on the blade is much improved with the liner and (I think) thinner welt. Now the draw is perfect because the mouth rides lower. Bill got the pattern dialed in!

    The whole package takes up very little room in a regular cowboy boot shaft. I have pretty much forgotten it is there for most of the day.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Security:
    This rig with the Mummert clip is basically rendered useless. The clip provides no retention in the boot. It would on a belt because the bottom would hook under the lower edge of the belt. On the surface of the leather it just comes along for the ride when you draw the knife.

    I ordered a Ulticlip and will swap it out. Full disclosure, Bill tried to dissuade me from the Mummert clip and basically told me this would happen. I'm stubborn sometimes, and should have listened to Bill to start with.

    Design and execution:
    * quotes on Prototype, because in all honesty, this is a darn nice sheath! It is very much evident of the refinement in his skill over the past couple years (I have one of his earlier sheaths for an EDC, and while it is very nice, it is a brick!). The difference between then and now is that before Bill used multiple layers of leather to build up the difference in height a the front of the handle. Now the leather is formed to the front of the handle in one thickness. This sheath is great quality and very well made.

    The stamping is fantastic (again, just a prototype, but the details are very nice). I am normally not one for stamped sheaths, preferring smooth leather, or textured leather instead (elephant, hippo, beaver tail, etc. - If I'm going to splurge on leather, I'm going to go big!). Having said that, Bill has made me a fan of stamping in both of these. One is a dart/arrow and this basket weave. Both are really nicely done.

    The stitching is well done, and is nice and uniform on both the front and back. I think all Bill's stitching is by hand - but he can correct me if that's not true.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Bill has also provided a couple variants of a belt loop for each of the prototypes. They are a fold-over leather design that also provides about 30-degrees of forward cant to the handle. The belt loop is well done and a great concept. Only thing is I do not want this knife on my belt in the traditional 3:00 position. He makes the attachment points modular in design so they can accept just about any clip you want. Pretty smart detail there. It made adapting to a clip a snap. With a Ulticlip I am able to go from my boot to in a deep pocket to inside my belt at the 11:00 position. I could even clip it inside my day pack with ease, making one setup suitable for a number of carry options.

    Overall, I'm heckin impressed with this sheath!
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
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  16. duramax

    duramax KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 29, 2012
    @TRfromMT

    Wow I wasn’t expecting all this, Thank you !!! Very nice review, well done !!!! Thank you for the kind words :D
    I think your really going to like the ulticlip :D
    I do offer hand stitching still, well sometimes lol. My small area or thin leather is still by hand. My sheaths now are machine stitched.
    Hey my first sheaths could double as a club or tire wedge lol :) Six plus layers of leather though makes a solid sheath lol ;):p:p

    Thank you !!!!

    Bill
     
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  17. Big DJ

    Big DJ Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 29, 2013
    Getting better every day Bill, well done!
     
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  18. duramax

    duramax KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 29, 2012
    Thank you :) !!!
    Much appreciated :D:D
     
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  19. cpirtle

    cpirtle Leathercrafter Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Mar 28, 2001
    Awesome reads!

    @TRfromMT having the Mummert on the rubber grommets solves the clearance problem but unless you bend the clip it is likely not gripping as strong at the contact point. That said, the Mummert is best on thick waistbands or belts and I can see why it'd slip off, even at full tension.

    It's amazing how many options we have available and they all have their strong points. UltiClips excel at holding the sheath in place on draw but need thinner material. The Mummert would do well on say a tactical boot with a padded shank, where the UC wouldn't have clearance to clip on.

    Here's an example of the landing pad I make for the Mummert so it can be mounted higher and still clear leather. It's also the clip I heat colored and found out how quickly a Mummert will flatten out :)

    Mummert spacer.jpg
     
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  20. TRfromMT

    TRfromMT Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    Some dark and brooding ironwood...

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