CS knives you want upsized/downsized/modified

Discussion in 'Cold Steel Knives' started by DangerZone98, May 17, 2020.

  1. insta9ves


    Apr 3, 2007
    I think the size may have something to do with Holdout's demise. Holdout II and III happens to miss the sweet spot IMO. II is slightly too large at 9" overall(4" blade) and III is slightly too small at 6.8" overall(less than 3" blade). Many people are looking for Para 2/Manix/Griptilian/Sebenza/Lawman size knife that's around 8-8.25" overall with 3.5" blade. Many successful models as mentioned before happen to land on this goldilock zone and I believe a Holdout 2.5 with 3.5" blade and 8" overall size would hit the sweet spot very well.

    I think there's a gap in CS's offering in this size range, the only real contender is the Lawman. Code 4/Ultimate Hunter/AD10/AD15 are all close, but they are slightly too large/heavy and miss the goldilock zone. Look at the latest SOG XR offering, specifically the tactical XR line. They just released 3 models - Pentagon XR, Vision XR and Tac XR. It's no coincident that all of them are around 8-8.4" long with around 3.5" blade, weighing 4-5oz. Despite the competitions in this space, many people wants to buy knife they are familiar with. If people are used to carrying Para 2 or Griptilian, they's a higher chance that they'll buy something with similar size & range.

    To put it in analogy, imagine more people are looking for Glock 19, but Cold Steel only produces Glock 26(Holdout III) and Glock 34(Holdout II). You see this across the industry, most companies want to produce something that compete in the common size range. Auto industry for example - Ford has F150, Chevy has Silverado 1500, Dodge has Ram 1500. You don't go after Dodge RAM 1500 with Ford Ranger or F250.

    The other reason is probably the marketing. The holdouts are being marketed as a dagger given its heritage. Had it been marketed as a utility/EDC knife like the Griptilian and the Para 2, it may have been received better and be treated as their viable alternatives.
    whp likes this.
  2. Mark Spark

    Mark Spark

    Jun 1, 2020
    I have a beautiful Recon 1 droppoint S35VN DLC flat grind. But I never use it. Its 0.040" behind the edge. I spent hours taking the uneven angle down to 15/15 degrees. But it still cuts like crap. Sharp, yes, but won't cut to save its life. If I had a Tormak I'd thin it out. As it is, it's stupid.
    I have a Buck 119 hunting knife that came 0.025" behind the edge. I've chopped wood with it, and the 420HC steel doesn't chip. It mystifies me why anyone would make a folding knife 0.040" behind the edge. Do they think people will hammer it through nails? Even then you don't need 0.040". I have dark suspicions that it's done to save grinding time.
  3. V8BMG


    Feb 11, 2012
    +1 for this
    insta9ves likes this.
  4. mwhich50

    mwhich50 Basic Member Basic Member

    Jan 18, 2011
    Stonewashed Mini-Recon, Recon, and American Lawman.
    I don't currently own any of these. I gave away my Mini Recon, and American Lawman. I can wait. ;)
    Jdubb, whp, insta9ves and 1 other person like this.
  5. DangerZone98


    Dec 7, 2019
    I know we already have the Warcraft Tanto in this size, but a Recon Tanto XL (9” blade) in SK5 sounds like a good idea. Awesome mid-tier chopper right there.
  6. whp


    Apr 26, 2009
    First time I ve been back to this thread since my last post.

    I agree that the Hold out 2 didn't t hit the 3.5 inch blade sweet spot. But it did compete with the Recon 1 and large Voyager, among many 4 inch folders CS offers in terms of size. These other 4 inch blades have stayed around. And it is light for its size, to be as strong as it seems to be.

    But , as I think about it more after reading your post, I ve come up with some problems .

    First, the marketing may have deterred some buyers. Marketed as a dagger or defense weapon,I wasn't t put off, though I only buy knives for work. The Hold out 2 was a good work knife for me. But Cold Steel markets a number of their folders as self defense items that have been around a long time.
    Second, the ergonomics of the Holdout 2 are not too good. Often times I d pull the knife at work, open it with one hand and while using it, if I didn't t keep looking at the knife , I d get the back edge of the blade mixed up with the front edge. I found that without lookin at that knife while using it, that the grip on the handle didn't t allow me to keep the knife oriented. I don t think I ve ever had that problem with another folder.
    Third, the Triad lock on my both of my Hold out 2 s was hard to disengage and close with one hand. I would do it, but often had to think about it. Maybe the lock was too far from the thumb studs.

    I guess what I liked about my Holdout 2 was how thin and light it was for how strong is. And that blade was one of the best slicers I d ever found in a 4 inch knife. Kind of like my Military, maybe better.

    As for the Holdout 3, that competes with the mini Griptilian and the Delica. Maybe the PM3. Definitely a better hard use work knife than the Delica or mini Griptilian, both of which I like. Can t compare the PM3, which I ve never held.

    Oh well. I m having to make do with my Ultimate Hunter, my Recon 1, my American Lawman, my large Voyager, and lately my Code 4 for my big work knives. I do wish the Code 4 would be offered with g10 scales, unlined.
    Jdubb, jux t and DangerZone98 like this.
  7. DangerZone98


    Dec 7, 2019
    The Para 3 is an awesome EDC knife, man. For those days when you want a smallish knife that still fills the hand, the Para 3 fits the bill.

    I suppose the Lawman is the closest we’ll get to a G10 Code 4, haha.
    whp likes this.
  8. whp


    Apr 26, 2009
    Yeah, I don't like metal handles when my hands get sweaty. The grip tape on my Code 4 helps a lot.

    The Airlite is similar in size to the Code 4, with good g10 handles. But my Airlite has the tiniest bit of up and down lock rock, intermittently. Nothing that hurts the function of the knife. And sometimes it will open for a dozen times and be tight. Then the next 4-5 times the lock rock returns. I ve never had a CS Triad lock with this problem. Although not a functional problem, it bugs me. Maybe the lock up will get seated with continued use. It might be getting a little better.
    DangerZone98 likes this.
  9. DangerZone98


    Dec 7, 2019
    Could you still have your Airlite exchanged? Sounds like a QC hiccup. Ideally, lockup should be consistent 100% of the time.
  10. ShannonSteelLabs

    ShannonSteelLabs KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Sep 9, 2015
    Rajah 2 .....
    In CPM 3V.
    With a 0.020 edge.

    And while at it might as well make the Rajah III CPM 3V too!
    JackTheKnifeGuy and DangerZone98 like this.
  11. JackTheKnifeGuy

    JackTheKnifeGuy Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 12, 2017
    Not sure if this was mentioned yet but,

    What about an Immortal XL? 5.5 inch satin or coated blade
    DangerZone98 and GAGL like this.
  12. Jdubb


    Jun 28, 2020
    Code 4 in titanium instead of aluminum. Maybe add some texturing except where the clips meet the handle.
    DangerZone98 likes this.
  13. Kels73

    Kels73 Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 20, 2012
    I'd love to see a limited edition Trail Master and Recon Scout in 3v with stacked leather handles. Die the handles black, give them a steel guard and pommel, and put them in black leather sheaths. I'd buy one of those in a hurry.
    willc and DangerZone98 like this.
  14. Smoke

    Smoke Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 14, 1998
    I'd like a slightly longer Kiridashi with a 'better' steel (I'm open to AUS) , the length and maybe the clip are the only reason I haven't picked one up.
  15. V8BMG


    Feb 11, 2012
    An AD10 with a 3"blade and a 4" handle, To make it more pocket friendly
    Jdubb and insta9ves like this.
  16. Jdubb


    Jun 28, 2020
    Now that the Demkos are working on the AD-20 and taking a break from making custom AD-10+Ps, I’d love to see a Cold Steel AD-10+P. Kind of like what they did with the 4-Max.
    - Titanium liners
    - Titanium backspacer
    - Hollow grind
    - Made in the USA!

    It would be cool if they offered a few different blade options: traditional, clip, tanto. Probably won’t happen, but one can always hope!
    jux t likes this.
  17. oxman198


    Jun 17, 2013
    A rescue version of the voyager.
    jux t and DangerZone98 like this.
  18. jux t

    jux t Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 10, 2018
    Excellent idea. I really liked the blue black and purple land and sea rescue knives they used to make. Wider serrations please.
    oxman198 likes this.
  19. oxman198


    Jun 17, 2013
    Exactly what I was thinking,and i think the Voyager is the perfect platform. I'm with you on the serrations too, I would have way more se cold steel if I could actually sharpen the damn things.
    DangerZone98, Smiling and jux t like this.
  20. V8BMG


    Feb 11, 2012
    An AD10 with a 3"blade and a 4" handle, To make it more pocket friendly
    insta9ves likes this.

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