DOZIER, my advice for him.

Discussion in 'Knife Reviews & Testing Archive' started by A. G. Russell, Apr 9, 2001.

  1. ChuckSmith

    ChuckSmith

    20
    Mar 14, 2001
    I agree with you in regards to other makers making knives in the same price range that are good. IMO that is a true statement. Are they better? Are they as good? I will answer no to both questions....this is my opinion. I am a knife user...not a collector,although my collection of Dozier using knives has grown to epic proportions....because of what they are! I would like to see a blade of 3V out perform a Dozier heat treated D2 cutting machine and hold an edge much longer? I am not being critical of your post at all....I just don't happen to share the same opinion you do. Regarding the blade finish....higher prices are to be expected for a more desired hand finish and for a using knife I have no problem with the current finish for my needs.If a fixed blade is selling for $149 with micarta scales and the best kydex sheath you can buy....would $10-$25 dollars keep the average "user" from buying it? I can't answer for them....for me it would not,and that is strictly because I know what they are worth. If that same knife sold for $249 it would still be a "deal". Unfortunately prices for materials don't stay the same and a makers continued search to better his product is certainly worth something. Do I want the prices of an already great knife to increase? No...but I am selfish in that respect. Will I not buy a Dozier if it goes up a few bucks? The answer to that is also No....again I am sold on them. I have never used a better knife regardless of who made it or how much it cost.If anyone has any Doziers they are interested in getting rid of please let me know...I am generally in the market. Thanks

     
  2. matthew rapaport

    matthew rapaport

    Jun 23, 1999
    Hi all...

    Sorry to have been a little testy in my first reply to A. G. R. above. I thought he knew that Bob's prices did recently increase and was suggesting he go even higher "just because he could". I bridle at that attitude in most things, so I bridled this time too [​IMG]

    As I said in my post, I understand prices rise over time, and I don't begrudge Bob letting his drift higher with the rest of the market. But I do like Bob's philosophy of placing himself somewhat under what other makers demand for similar quality because I think that's the "friendly" way to do business, and those are the sort of vendors with whom I like to spend my money!
     
  3. budrichard

    budrichard

    622
    Jun 26, 2000
    AG, I have collected a small number of custom knives for over 30 years. In fact my first was a Morseth purchased from you in 1973 that Bob probably made. Comparing that knife to the Dozier Master Skinner I also recently purchased from you and to other custom makers still producing, notabably Corbet Sigman, leads me to the following conclusions. Bob's fixed blades are priced about right or maybe a shade too high when compared to a Sigman Utitlity Hunter in 440V($190US). The Sigman knife has a bolster and "new" steel with a Moran edge. Whether the 440V is better than D2 is mute, both are good! Fit and finish are on a par with Corbet getting the slight nod. I do not have a collector Dozier to compare to my Collector Sigman knives but Corbet is as good as they come! Bob does not want to make collector knives which accounts for his popularity at this time. If Bob raised the prices on his fixed blades too much, they will be out of line for working knives when compared with others on the market. I am waiting for one of his T1 models. I ordered it at $350US, which seemed a reasonable price for what I hope to obtain. Anymore than that, I am in the collector range and would look elsewhere for someone to put in the blade finish I would like for that amount of money. I have to tell you quite honestly that I feel your post was not well thought thru. I realise that you and Bob go back a long way and that you are happy for him to be recognised, but your fellings would have been better communicated to Bob in private. I would like to order more fixed blades from Bob, but as I have told Bob, I would like collector grade and will pay for that work. I have seen another knifemaker who went from custom folding knives to production to custom/production at really high prices. I will not buy his knives when I can obtain other custom knives for less. I would not like to see Bob fall into the same trap. Bob prices are not "really low". His knives are not collectables and as such do not justify collectable prices. They are excellent working knives with no bolsters, fancy finishes or extras. That is how Bob like it. Dick
     
  4. ChuckSmith

    ChuckSmith

    20
    Mar 14, 2001
    I can agree with the quality of the Sigman knives. I can also agree that for me a Dozier is as good as it gets....if we are strictly talking the most bang for the buck.I don't really agree with the statement that his knives are not really that low in price....all things considered equal they are an excellent value IMO. Not being a knife expert leaves me at a severe disadvantage when trying to "compete" with those that are or think they are. I have learned an insurmountable amount of information from you fine people here on BF and would be negligent if I didn't admit that. I am not a knife maker,metalurgist, or brain surgeon....what I am is a knife "user" and have been so for 30 years now. A using knife has been a intregal part of my life for as long as I can remember and I know too well that there are many makers out there putting out quality blades for reasonable prices. I have chosen Dozier knives above all else for these reasons. For the dollars laid out...IMO they can't be bested! The three main reasons are: Design,Fit, and Function. You can't help but notice a unique design in all of Bob's blades....be they fixed or folders. Dozier knives are not collectible? That depends on your definition of "collectible"....I don't buy a Dozier for it's resale value as it is not a concern that I have. I buy them as an "investment" in quality and know without a shadow of a doubt that they will provide years of service to not only me,but my children as well. IMO there is much more to a knife than a bolster,fancy scales, and a shiny blade...none of which has anything to do with usefulness or cutting ability. If there are better steels out there superior to a Dozier heat treated D2 blade....IMO it would have to be considerably better or it would not be worth changing. Bob Dozier is "Mr.D2" and that can't be denied and he has come as close to perfecting it's use than anyone else I know of. No one knife maker can make all the knives nor can he meet everyones tastes and needs,but for me he has come closest to that than anyone else. Everyone has a right to choose....I choose to spend my money on a Dozier.

    Best Regards,
    Chuck Smith

     
  5. Ebbtide

    Ebbtide

    Aug 20, 1999
    As said by budrichard:
    "and that's the way Bob likes it"
    Me too [​IMG]

    AG....Everyone gets a red face 'round here sooner or later...don't sweat it [​IMG]
    I know you said that with only good intentions [​IMG]
     
  6. budrichard

    budrichard

    622
    Jun 26, 2000
    ChuckSmith, Thanks for your interesting reply. I did not imply that Sigman knives are better than Dozier knives. Sigman makes both using and collector grade knives. In a nut shell, my intent was to point out that Dozier knives are priced about right or a little too high for the amount of finish and lack of bolsters. They are excellent knives for using! They are not collectables and as I have stated "that't the way Bob wants it". If Bob were to charge more money, he would enter the realm of collector knives and that is not his intent. By the way, I am a Nuclear Engineer with minor in Metalurgy and am both a collector and user. Dick
     
  7. Darrel Ralph

    Darrel Ralph Moderator Moderator

    Dec 14, 1998
    As for 3v outcutting D2 I dont think so.
    They cut about the same and hold the edge about the same . D2 is more aggresive as a matter of fact in the 7 knives I tested with different rc hardness's ranging from 56-62 on both. Even with new patented COLD FIRE CRYO treatment both steels performed a little better, but not more than 2-3 percent.

    The 3V is more impact resistant. BUT the edge deforms when thin also. I like the edge to cut without pushing to hard.

    My vote goes to D2 anyday. Paying more for a steel (3v) because of hype and spec sheets dont get it for me. With less stain resitance and edge deformation problems 3V not a value. I dont beleive anything until I test for myself. Some elements make a steel better in one respect and not so good in another. A 3v sword with a convex edge that is thicker is a good thing. It will bend and whip around ect.
    52100 will outperform 3V also in THIN edge cutting tests, deformation and edge holding.
    D2 and 52100 are better steels for the buck for standard knives. NO there not buzz words- new, little, yellow ect. CPM 420v whips D2 and 3v's butts. Not to many makers running to cpm 420v. Try grinding it. Its worth the extra money.
    Bobs D2 is great!


    ------------------
    Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
    MADD MAXX !
     
  8. MAURICE

    MAURICE

    Jul 14, 2000
    As a high school student,and soon to be college student, 150 bucks is quite a bit of money to spend on anything,especially knives.
    But I still plan on buying (when i get my truck) one or more of Bob's knives. 150-ok. 165/175-ok. But no more than that. I'll go buy a Livesay if it gets too high.

    A poor high school student,
    MAURICE
     
  9. Parker

    Parker

    Mar 19, 1999
    Maurice, please remember this about Dozier vs Livesay knives....

    Dozier finishes his knives. I love Newt's combat grade finish on the knives he makes for their intended purpose (God knows on a killing knife you do not need a high grade finish) but they are genuinely a wreck in the finsh department. Bob's knives are finished to a satin that you will maintain easily. Newt's knives, well, if they rust you feel it is okay to let it go.

    Bob also feels it necessary to deliver the knife with a sharp edge. Newt is a bit uneven in that department. Still, to each his own....

    AG, tell Mr. Dozier it is perfectly fine to price up to demand. Knifemakers should be able to afford groceries and gas. $10-25 a knife would be acceptable, as he has not raised prices in quite some time. Randalls went up $10 this year and the waiting list is still there.
     

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