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Finnish/Earlier Scandi axes - Kirves

Discussion in 'Axe, Tomahawk, & Hatchet Forum' started by Agent_H, Sep 10, 2016.

  1. littleknife

    littleknife

    Nov 29, 2000
    Great link, Jake. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

    And look at some of the axes with the longest sockets - they have additional langet-like metal strips added to hilt for protection.;)
    Defeats the argument that collars developed as full wrap-around langets. Why bother, when you can much more easily attach metal strips to the haft - even to the haft of a collared axe.
     
    jake pogg likes this.
  2. jake pogg

    jake pogg

    Dec 20, 2015
    Yessir,call it the gut-feeling,but from a smith's perspective the langettes,at least the long-flat kind(lets remember that any protrusions of the sides of an eye are technically langettes,Peterson's taxonomy of axes is actually based on that),are quite a different feature.
    Yes,good eye,i also noted how on one or more they're welded to an already lenghened socket.

    One of the things that struck me is how Modern many of those extended eyes looked...Very much like the later,18-19th c.c. Scandi broadaxes.
    That book by Lars Enander(who used to be/maybe still is,the head-smith at GB),where he breaks down the construction details,he does so using one Very much like it for the illustrations...

    https://www.amazon.com/Swedish-Blacksmithing-Book/dp/919756348X
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
    littleknife likes this.
  3. littleknife

    littleknife

    Nov 29, 2000
    Steve, good find! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

    I wonder if the socket is integral to the axe head or just a separate metal band slipped into the eye akin to the protective sleeve of this Craftsman hammer:

    http://www.sears.com/craftsman-16-o...SellerId=Sears&prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3

    Or the Gransfor Bruk’s Outdoor Axe:

    https://www.gransforsbruk.com/app/uploads/2014/11/425-outdoor-axe_6.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
  4. jake pogg

    jake pogg

    Dec 20, 2015
    Judging by the drawing in Steve's PDF it'd seem like the collar is separate(the axe itself looking like a Petersen type M),and maybe even made of a non-ferrous alloy(as it's in a fairly decent shape,considering how thin it must be)...

    I think that both Craftsman and GB use a specialised press to install those steel inserts...

    Here's another uber-cute medieaval woodchopper's axe...

    http://moroantik.hu/?p=1574&lang=en

    Billed,naturally,as a "war-axe"...And no doubt they're right:After that woodchopper's house was burned(he had to live closer to the woods to be there every day cutting wood and burning charcoal,so it was a little ways off),his family raped and then killed,he had to follow his feudal lord to war against the lord of the neighboring Manor...And,naturally,he wasn't issued any arms,so whatever he had with him as his tools of production went to war...
     
    littleknife and Square_peg like this.
  5. Kevin Houtzager

    Kevin Houtzager

    908
    Jun 25, 2017
    X
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  6. jake pogg

    jake pogg

    Dec 20, 2015
    Dude!NOW you're getting it!

    I've more proof here,too:https://imgur.com/a/xYcAs
     
    littleknife, Square_peg and rjdankert like this.
  7. Square_peg

    Square_peg Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 1, 2012

    Nice battle axe there, Jake!
     
    littleknife, jake pogg and rjdankert like this.
  8. Steve Tall

    Steve Tall

    Aug 28, 2010
    The Gransfors Axe Museum (next door to the forge) has some collared axes on display (among the 2000+ axes there):

    [​IMG]


    Two videos showing the hand-forging of some Swedish collared axes in the 1920s, by a single blacksmith in the first video, and a pair of blacksmiths in the second.







     
    Agent_H, littleknife and jake pogg like this.
  9. rjdankert

    rjdankert Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Mar 10, 2011
    I recently bought this with the promise of some kind of axe inside:

    [​IMG]

    The listing pictures were blurred, description vague, and the title was something like "VERY EARLY HAND AXE. RARE". So here is my mystery axe:

    [​IMG]

    Total weight 1,283kg
    Width of bit 67mm
    Length of head (bit to poll) 169mm
    Collar/eye length 95mm
    No markings found

    Any thoughts?


    Bob
     
  10. jake pogg

    jake pogg

    Dec 20, 2015
    Thank you Steve,both videos are superlative fragments of history.
    The first,the old Wira factory one,i've seen before,but never tire of watching over.

    The second is entirely new to me....It's Most impressive.Most of 19th c. Billnas/Wetterlings/Hults products(like that HB catalog you've so kindly posted just the other day),most of their models are represented in what the smith holds up there toward the end of film.

    VERY cool,tons of extremely valuable info in there...
     
  11. jake pogg

    jake pogg

    Dec 20, 2015
    Fantastic,Bob,very sweet axe,congratulations!

    Unfortunately can't say anything in particular other than almost certainly Finnish...But you knew that already...Other than that-beautiful tool.
     
    rjdankert likes this.
  12. Agent_H

    Agent_H Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    "Total weight 1,283kg or roughly 2.82lbs / 2lbs 13oz?
    Width of bit 67mm
    Length of head (bit to poll) 169mm
    Collar/eye length 95mm
    No markings found"


    How much of the weight do you think is in the handle?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    BA056A8A-7875-467B-BCE1-8F706123AC4B
    by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr
    3lbs 5oz


    There isn’t a cut-in on the collar so that might help narrow it down.
    You could try looking at the eye and determine if is roughly falls into a discernible shape.
    Is there a visible seam on the underside of the collar?

    It looks a bit like a size between the No.7 and the smaller hatchet sized 61.x/17.x. (or either one for that matter). It looks right useful.

    Doesn’t outwardly seem abused and has a lot of visible bit - that is a fine looking kirves. Nice score, Bob. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
    littleknife and rjdankert like this.
  13. Steve Tall

    Steve Tall

    Aug 28, 2010
    My guess is 61/2 (from the 1928 Billnäs catalog, page 18), with a 65 mm width of blade, and 0.8 kg specified:

    [​IMG]

    Although a 800g head would mean the handle is about 483g (a little heavy?) unless there's some extra weight in the head?
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
    littleknife, rjdankert and Agent_H like this.
  14. Agent_H

    Agent_H Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    *edited my previous post “26” Handle”-not sure I was reading closely, got enthused lol.

    The 15.2 I have is 2lbs 2oz, 16.2. Is 2lbs. Steve could be right.

    Those are wicked little deals if it is and that would be a pretty great example. How long overall is it?
     
    rjdankert likes this.
  15. Kevin Houtzager

    Kevin Houtzager

    908
    Jun 25, 2017
    X
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
    rjdankert likes this.
  16. rjdankert

    rjdankert Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Mar 10, 2011
    :oops:
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  17. rjdankert

    rjdankert Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Mar 10, 2011
    First, thanks for the responses, appreciate all!

    I was hoping it was Finnish but, I am afraid I don't have enough experience and confidence to know the likelihood. What characteristics should I look for?

    Yes, my scale has it at 2lb 13.3oz

    An add for a Link 18 inch hickory house handle listed the weight at 11.2 oz. / 0,3kg. This handle is 18 1/2 in. / 47cm. A 0,3kg handle would put the head at 1,0kg

    None I can detect.

    I don't see any distortions and dents in the poll are minor to me (YMMV). However it has more pitting than I would like. The bit below the weld line is 7/8 in - 1 in (22mm - 25mm). I have done some filing and it is HARD.

    I don't know. I didn't try to sand it down, but I've cleaned it with solvents and so far not seen much figure.

    I would add that I blieve it is homemade and the maker didn't attempt to make it perfectly symmetrical or smooth out the facets (I like it). The fit at the top and bottom of the eye is very good to excellent (IMHO). The handle is not wedged. I haven't used the axe yet to actually tell if it stays tight.


    Now for my guess. Assuming it was at least based on a Billnäs / Kellokoski pattern: No 14/2.

    Here are pictures and info for the 14 model I lifted from the Finnish Axes Facebook page:

    Billnäs 14/2

    [​IMG]
    Weight in the 1928 Billnäs catalog for the 14/1 is 1,2kg and the 14/2 1,1kg.


    Kellokoski 14/1
    [​IMG]


    Bob
     
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  18. Agent_H

    Agent_H Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    I don’t have anything to back up what what makes a Finnish axe stand out above others but the collars having the defined angles on the edges (older ones) kind of strikes me.

    The weights of the ones I have messed with seem to me more than stated in the catalogs sometimes.

    I haven’t seen a 14.x before but that blade style is tough to type just because some of the only differences (from an outside observer) seem to be the angle that the blade comes off the collar.

    14.x sounds good - that kind of puts it in between the 7.x and the 61.x in a sense. Kind of the “boy’s axe” size of the pattern?

    It sure is cool for several reasons, one being I haven’t seen one that intact. Being hard is great as well :thumbsup:
     
    littleknife, jake pogg and rjdankert like this.
  19. Agent_H

    Agent_H Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    Since we all kind of “axe” vicariously through one another here (in one way or another) I personally wouldn’t be opposed to more pictures of it lol.
     
    Square_peg and junkenstien like this.
  20. Steve Tall

    Steve Tall

    Aug 28, 2010
    The listed blade width for the 14/2 is 90mm, compared to 65mm for the 61/2, and 67mm for the actual measurement of the axe's bit. That's why my guess is that it's an overweight (and very attractive) 61/2.
     
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