General Anvil Related Questions

Discussion in 'Hammer & Tongs' started by Ome108, Sep 6, 2014.

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  1. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    Just to be sure of the question, are you talking about a single piece of steel weighing 30-100 pounds, or 30-100 pounds of knife blades?
    The best place to get either done is a commercial heat treater, I would contact Peter's HT in Pennsylvania.
     
  2. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    double post
     
  3. Ome108

    Ome108

    224
    Apr 29, 2014
    Thanks Stacy
    Jon
     
  4. Storm Crow

    Storm Crow

    Apr 12, 2006
    Even at that size, I would be hesitant to water quench. The die I cracked had a good deal of thermal mass and had a long time to cool down prior to going into the water.

    I'd try to get together a larger quantity of oil for the quench, even if it was less-than ideal oil like used motor oil, rather than do a water quench.

    Or it might make sense to take it to a place that does flame hardening.
     
  5. SinePari

    SinePari

    906
    Oct 24, 2013
    Yeah, that's an incident that sorta kills my imaginative idea. The fact that it cracked even though it received a good quenching in oil first speaks volumes towards avoiding water with 4140... I was just trying to make the thread more controversial... :D

    Does anyone know of an industrial reference one can research that involves larger cross-sections of quenching steel?
     
  6. 629hugo

    629hugo

    191
    Feb 10, 2013
    bodycote is an industrial HT source.
     
  7. BallewBlade

    BallewBlade

    713
    Oct 10, 2011
    Yeah Peters heat treating is probably the best and well known heat treating outfit, call them up and SinePari thanks for sharing that link to the anvil, I really enjoyed reading about that.
     
  8. leifjl

    leifjl KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    789
    Nov 27, 2011
    If you're asking about heat treating a 30-100 pound piece of steel, and not a batch of knives, there's a place in Wyandanch that does commercial heat treating. You could drive it there and save a boat load on shipping. I wouldn't send knives there though, send knives to someone who specializes in that sort of thing, like Peter's.

    Leif
     
  9. Ome108

    Ome108

    224
    Apr 29, 2014
    Hi ,
    Does anyone know of ways to use these two platforms where trees were cut down.
    Only 4 " off ground, they are really sturdy.
    They will be just outside the side of the new shed.
    I know they used to cut a tree down and build the shop around the stump, to put their anvil on.
    This is outside, so anything could be brought back inside the shed or just covered.
    I have a couple of old 5" leg post vices.
    Also have a cew long pieces of RR Rail.
    Any ideas would be great.
    Thanks,
    Jon
     
  10. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    The stumps will rot in time.... if they are cut close to the ground, they will rot faster.

    The "stump" you see in old blacksmith shops wasn't in the ground from a tree. It is a section of tree trunk cut off at the proper size to make an anvil base, and placed in the middle of the shop.. That is the simplest method for an anvil base.
     
  11. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    The stumps will rot in time.... if they are cut close to the ground, they will rot faster.

    The "stump" you see in old blacksmith shops wasn't in the ground from a tree. It is a section of tree trunk cut off at the proper size to make an anvil base, and placed in the middle of the shop.. That is the simplest method for an anvil base.
     
  12. Ome108

    Ome108

    224
    Apr 29, 2014
    Thank You
    Jon
     
  13. Ome108

    Ome108

    224
    Apr 29, 2014
    Hi Guys,
    I would appreciate any info on the following steel types,
    And I know tool steel is not needed, but for sake of interest.
    8620
    4130
    4140
    S7
    H13
    Does anyone know what the numbers cor hardness hrc and toughness for these metals in the unhardened, non tempered state?
    Thanks in advance,
    Jon
     
  14. Atlas Knife Company

    Atlas Knife Company KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 16, 2010
    Google would be your best resource for detailed info about those steel types.
     
  15. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    A post anvil needs to be only moderately hard and tough. S7 or 4140 would be fine. It should be hardened on the end in a perfect use, but even an unhardened piece will work. You can ask the supplier you find for the as delivered hardness. S7 is probably going to be a bit harder and tougher due to the chromium, molybdenum, and vanadium.
    http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=4140, S7&hrn=1&gm=0
     
  16. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    A post anvil needs to be only moderately hard and tough. S7 or 4140 would be fine. It should be hardened on the end in a perfect use, but even an unhardened piece will work. You can ask the supplier you find for the as delivered hardness. S7 is probably going to be a bit harder and tougher due to the chromium, molybdenum, and vanadium.
    http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=4140, S7&hrn=1&gm=0
     
  17. rustyboy

    rustyboy

    105
    Jan 7, 2005
    Ive been doing research into this all day and the only conclusion i can come to is - What are you willing to risk.

    I have a 4"X12" chunk of 4140 coming in and what i've been able to gather is i need at least 5 gallons of oil at 120 degrees agitated for a proper quench or make sure all square corners are rounded and hit the top of the block at temp with a heavy continuous stream of water. All this after soaking the steel at 1575 for 20 minutes. And after it can be handled put it to temper for 4 hours at 500 for a RC52-54 for water 48-50 with oil.

    All of the above info is for bringing the entire piece of steel up to temp.

    My idea is just to put it in the forge bring the top 3" to 4" to temp let it soak for 10 minutes and quench in 5 gallons of canola oil. Let it come down to handling temp then temper 500 for 2 hours.

    but that's my idea so, you never know.
     
  18. rustyboy

    rustyboy

    105
    Jan 7, 2005
    Ive been doing research into this all day and the only conclusion i can come to is - What are you willing to risk.

    I have a 4"X12" chunk of 4140 coming in and what i've been able to gather is i need at least 5 gallons of oil at 120 degrees agitated for a proper quench or make sure all square corners are rounded and hit the top of the block at temp with a heavy continuous stream of water. All this after soaking the steel at 1575 for 20 minutes. And after it can be handled put it to temper for 4 hours at 500 for a RC52-54 for water 48-50 with oil.

    All of the above info is for bringing the entire piece of steel up to temp.

    My idea is just to put it in the forge bring the top 3" to 4" to temp let it soak for 10 minutes and quench in 5 gallons of canola oil. Let it come down to handling temp then temper 500 for 2 hours.

    but that's my idea so, you never know.
     
  19. Ome108

    Ome108

    224
    Apr 29, 2014
    Thank You
     
  20. Ome108

    Ome108

    224
    Apr 29, 2014
    Thank You , Stacy, very much.
     
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