General Anvil Related Questions

Discussion in 'Hammer & Tongs' started by Ome108, Sep 6, 2014.

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  1. Denzer

    Denzer

    22
    Apr 30, 2013
    When you buy pre heat treated 4140 it usually comes in about the 27 HRC range (or at least the ones I got were).
     
  2. 629hugo

    629hugo

    191
    Feb 10, 2013
    This is a decent website to start from regarding some of my favorite high strength carbon steel alloys http://www.interlloy.com.au/.

    Curious are you going to buy a round bar from a supplier. I have been looking for a train axle lately.
     
  3. Ome108

    Ome108

    224
    Apr 29, 2014
    Yes,
    I am looking for a train axle for a few months, a friend works at a rail yard with them laying all over the place, and scrap axles going to dedicated scrap yards. These are all tracked and watched all the time. I am told a new axle is over 10 grand!
    I am also looking for a nice size 60-70 lbs, rectangular, and send it to be professionally hardened and triple tempered.
    Good luck with the Axle.
    Any idea what steel they use
    Thanks,
    Jon
     
  4. mete

    mete

    Jun 10, 2003
    If the 4140 is not enough for you try 4340 ! a step up on the toughness scale.
     
  5. 629hugo

    629hugo

    191
    Feb 10, 2013
    There are a few different steels used. I don't know who uses what but I am guessing comparable to 8620 or some chrome/moly (4140/4340) alloys. I even found one reference to 52100 so that would be sweet. I dont think we will find any train axles soon though. I have designed an anvil too but am having a hard time finding a shop that pours steel. I have reached out to one locally but they only do production runs. Electric arc furnaces are expensive to run especially for my dinky little 400 lbs of axle shafts.
     
  6. elementfe

    elementfe

    May 3, 2008
    My main (8") post vise was attached to the stump of the only tree I cut to build my shop.
    I got about ten or twelve years out of it, but it was a Douglas Fir, and they're kind of freaky about not rotting right away, anything else probably would go much sooner.
     
  7. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    If you have a pre hardened piece, and a heat sink for the face, welding to the tie is unlikely to ruin your temper, through that mass of steel. I have been considering doing this myself for a functional anvil, but welding to a block of 6 14x14x.75" steel plates I welded together. It would be about 150+ lbs from what I calculated.
     
  8. DougSeward

    DougSeward

    132
    Feb 23, 2007
    I can offer a little advice on heating and quenching a post anvil. We recently quenched a post anvil using a 3" 8 horsepower trash pump fed from a swimming pool and while the project was ultimately unsuccessful, the heating and quenching seemed to work as intended. We estimate the water flow at around 6 gallons per second. The face was damascus and we previously attempted to forge weld it to a 230lb post of 4820. The weld unfortunately delaminated along one side, but the quenching speed was sufficient that the face hardened to the point where it skates a good file. I used 1045 and 15N20 as the damascus mix, so it was well suited to water quenching.

    Here is a video of the quench.
    [video=youtube_share;Bh26fKjOB2U]http://youtu.be/Bh26fKjOB2U[/video]
     
  9. Ome108

    Ome108

    224
    Apr 29, 2014
    Hi guys,
    Do I get more height with a gabled roof (2 by 10 ) ridge or a lean too roof with 9' on the low side, and 11' on the high side.
    I need double doors for an opening of as close to 9.5' high as possible.
    I will need to bring a forklift in the front area, for equipment as my skill grows.
    Thank you,
    Jon
     
  10. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    You didn't giver the dimensions, and they may make a big difference.

    A fork lift bringing in big equipment....and a small forging shed are different things.

    A shed roof of only 2' drop is a pretty shallow slope. Try 12' on the high side and 8-9' on the low.

    A lean-to shed has more usable headroom and available wall space than a ridged roof.
     
  11. SinePari

    SinePari

    906
    Oct 24, 2013
    I've so wanted to do this. You hear about people wanting to do it, or suggest it as a means of accomplishing said feat, but I've never seen it... What a great video to share!
     
  12. Ome108

    Ome108

    224
    Apr 29, 2014
    Thanks Stacy,
    The biggest I can have built is 10' by 14' with a a wooden floor, only cement footing. The joists will be 12" OC BEEFED up with some cross beam support.
    I also need an affortable metal tread flooring.
    Checked with mcnichols, only had 4 percent open as a min.
    The shed doors will be on the high side of the 10' wall, and the roof pitch will be across the 10' wide area. The village limited the height to 11'
    Any other info would be appreciated,
    Thanks,
    Jon
     
  13. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    12" centers is obsessive...16" centers are fine. Run front to back joists on 32" centers at ceiling height for strength. If you want more rigidity in the shed, use thicker plywood.

    I would think your floor over and decide if you need a hard floor or if gravel/clay would do just as well. (Why on earth would you need metal tread flooring?)

    A 10:2 roof is a 12:2.4 pitch...it is a slope, but not a lot. If that is allowed by the ordinance, OK. If you are restricted to 11' max height, I would drop the back wall to 8' for a 12:3.6 pitch.

    As mentioned earlier, I would not worry about big equipment that needs a fork lift in a small shed shop. Those things need lots of space, dedicated concrete floors, and better climate control than a shed.
     
  14. Ome108

    Ome108

    224
    Apr 29, 2014
    Thanks Stacy,
    I meant to say a covering over the plywood floor where any forging is done, when really cold and windy, 15mph plus and near 10 degrees in winter. Just so not to burn the floor if the hot piece fell.
    I thought one day, off in the future, if by enough knowledge and practice, i might save up for a press or a 33 lb power hammer.
    When i spoke to the owner of one such company, he said it would not be a problem in a small shed.
    Thanks,
    Jon
     
  15. Ome108

    Ome108

    224
    Apr 29, 2014
    Hi Guys,
    Just got a sweet deal on 3.5" round by 24" and 36" long.
    Prices are 53 percent cheaper on the whole.
    66 and 99 lbs are their perspective weights
    thank you,
    Jon
    Any advice on which would serve as a post anvil better?
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014
  16. Ome108

    Ome108

    224
    Apr 29, 2014
    Hi guys,
    I know this may be a dumb question, but when dealing with different alloy and tool steels, what are the main reasons behind the percentage of rebound.
    In my limited experience, the RR rail on end at 42lbs and 12" long dented and gad littlle rebound, with a 2 lb cross pein hammer.
    The 28" piece at 99 lbs still dented , with only a bit more rebound.
    This is old track, both from the same source , supposedly 60 years plus.
    I have one more piece to test, it is new and is 39"" long and 150 lbs and a bit beefier.
    Finally i just got back my 38 lb chunk of h13 at 54.1 average rc.
    It has a dark color all over , and one small sanded spot.
    So, I assume the real anvils will have better rebound, but some anvils are cast out of h13 or s7. Yet I have read others say that their large axle on end had the best rebound of all.
    So, what are the real reasons behind great rebound?
    Thanks,
    Jon
     
  17. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    Rebound is an indication of hardness, mainly.
     
  18. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    Ome,
    I know you are excited about learning to make knives....but you should try and make some knives.

    You are posting thread after thread asking advice on all sorts of things. Most of the info can be found by a search, and a lot of it won't matter until you know how to make a knife.

    I would suggest you build your shed, set up your grinder, and make a dozen or so knives. Learn to make a decent knife first, and then learn to forge. After you have the basics down, you can decide about building anvils, bringing in power hammers on forklifts, and other more advanced projects.

    The old koan is, "Learn to walk before you try to run."
     
  19. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    Ome,
    I know you are excited about learning to make knives....but you should try and make some knives.

    You are posting thread after thread asking advice on all sorts of things. Most of the info can be found by a search, and a lot of it won't matter until you know how to make a knife.

    I would suggest you build your shed, set up your grinder, and make a dozen or so knives. Learn to make a decent knife first, and then learn to forge. After you have the basics down, you can decide about building anvils, bringing in power hammers on forklifts, and other more advanced projects.

    The old koan is, "Learn to walk before you try to run."
     
  20. Ome108

    Ome108

    224
    Apr 29, 2014
    Thanks, Stacy,
    While I respect your opinion, since you do not really know much about me, i disagree with you.
    I have been learning all types of skills and knowledge for many incarnations.
    This one allows me to learn quickly as I research using all the tools I can.
    I will continue to ask questions, because that is what this site is supposed to be for.
    Thanks,
    Jon
    Ps I do not feel that I am doing anything wrong, just asking lots of good questions. I hope to get some answers, but it seems to me that people here look to you as some sort of master , i know nothing about that.
    I try and understand everyones point of view and avoid offending anyone.
    I care for many wild abused animals and domestic animals wirh paralysis thT need round the clock care.
    I do not have the time to make 6 or 8 knives. Plus I like to practice a variety of skills.
    Thanks,
    Jon
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
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