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Having trouble getting D2 sharp. Wrong Stone?

Discussion in 'Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment' started by LivingLikeLarry, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. LivingLikeLarry

    LivingLikeLarry

    12
    Aug 13, 2019
    I have the Sharp Pebble 1000/6000 whetstone made with Aluminum Oxide and I just can't get my Ontario Rat 2 in D2 steel sharp on it. I can get parts of the blade to cut paper but others not. I did look around this forum and see many people suggesting using Diamond stones or silicon carbide but nothing strictly saying Aluminum Oxide wont work. I also have a DMD mini stone that has a Diamond/Ceramic side, the Ceramic side is roughly 200 grit and had no luck with that either and the grit is so rough its leaves a really ugly finish that is hard to polish out when I attempt to refine. What is better for D2 diamond or silicon carbide? I was thinking of picking up the Whetsone Cutlery 400/1000 which is silicone carbide.
     
    bucketstove likes this.
  2. kniferbro

    kniferbro

    Jan 22, 2011
    Are you raising a bur? If yes, its time for a strop me thinks.
     
  3. LivingLikeLarry

    LivingLikeLarry

    12
    Aug 13, 2019
    I am able to create a burr but it is a bit tricky I think the hard part is getting it uniform through the whole blade. Another stropping did manage to help it sharpen a bit though.
     
  4. kniferbro

    kniferbro

    Jan 22, 2011
    What do you mean by another stropping? How much/long is one stropping?
     
  5. LivingLikeLarry

    LivingLikeLarry

    12
    Aug 13, 2019
    I kinda rushed it the first time. I mean I tried the whole process again counting 2 down from 12 passes alternating sides
     
  6. kniferbro

    kniferbro

    Jan 22, 2011
    Hmmm, I say forget the process and go by feel. Strop until its sharp. If you raised a burr, and your angle is OK on the strop, it will get sharp. Just keep at it.
     
    LivingLikeLarry likes this.
  7. sickpuppy1

    sickpuppy1 Basic Member Basic Member

    357
    Sep 27, 2018
    also, what angle are you trying to achieve? My experience with D2 was that it didnt like going beyond 20 degrees per side
     
  8. Bill3152

    Bill3152

    230
    Nov 27, 2018
    Diamonds can cut anything. So if your gonna buy something I would start there. I use diamonds on all my knives. Your money, your call of course. I have a dmd 2 sided as well as my dmts The dmd for.about $15 does all my kitchen stuff. 400 on one side and 1000 on the other. You can find on eBay. Slow boat from China though so don't hold your breath waiting for it.
     
  9. LivingLikeLarry

    LivingLikeLarry

    12
    Aug 13, 2019
    I am going for the factory angle but it seems pretty shallow, it's probably about 20 degrees maybe a tad less.

    Is the DMD one you are talking about the golden one? With DMT stones one thing I don't get is that there isn't a number grit but from what I read they are kinda rough. Can you finish on a regular stone with a higher grit if you wanted a more refined edge?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  10. David Martin

    David Martin Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2008
    DMT x fine is 1200 grit. DM
     
  11. NORTHWEST_KNIFE_GUY

    NORTHWEST_KNIFE_GUY KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    338
    Jul 14, 2017
    I tried that stone (got it off amazon) a while back, now this is my opinion and not trying to knock your stone so please don't take it that way. Out of the box and after a short soak I tried it and just didn't work well for me, I could get a decent edge but the stones quality just seemed to be lacking and also seemed much coarser then 1k/6k. Are you working up a burr on each side? If you are take some into the edge passed using the lightest pressure you can to remove the burr. If you search youtube for steel drake he has some good videos on this.

    I am by no mean on the level of some or perhaps many on the forum when it comes to sharping however I can get an edge pretty sharp. Here is a steel will in D2 I just sharpened on spyderco ceramics med, fine and UF and then strop with diamond on basswood.

     
    LivingLikeLarry likes this.
  12. Danketch

    Danketch Gold Member Gold Member

    569
    Apr 27, 2007
    If you are starting from a dull edge a 1000 grit waterstone is probably way too fine to start with. Let alone a cheap chinese one (I'm assuming, saw it was $30 on the river site).

    I used my Wicked Edge with diamonds to 1000 grit on my Rat 1 in D2, about a year ago, occasional pocket carry, and I don't even need to strop to maintain the edge. It holds an edge forever it seems, still shaves arm hair. So I can definitely recommend a couple of hundred dollar sharpening system, it works great on that $50 knife. If you don't want to spend the coin for that, I would get some diamond plates in coarse and fine grits at least, and go to town freehand.

    Aluminum oxide will cut D2, eventually. Probably slightly faster than using an arkansas stone. I made the decision a while ago my time is too valuable to take hours to do something I could do in minutes, and invested in quality sharpening tools and learned to use them properly.

    Looks like you are new here OP. There is a dearth of info on this forum, and the stickies at the top and search function will probably bring up a lot of additional info for you.
     
  13. LivingLikeLarry

    LivingLikeLarry

    12
    Aug 13, 2019
    I looked up Drakes channel and seen the tutorial it was pretty good but if I want to refine more after aligning the burr with the rough stone I don't break it off until I am done with the finer stones right? For example lets say 400 grit diamond to make the burr, flip the side to make it even then proceed to something like 1000 or higher and when I am happy break the burr?

    Is 1000 grit really all it takes to shave arm hair on D2? I will check out those stickys but I don't have enough knives to invest too much into a high end system maybe eventually though.
     
  14. Craig James

    Craig James

    46
    Oct 30, 2018
    You should be able to shave arm hair at your first stone, in my case my coarsest stone is around the 300 grit mark. If it’s not sharp after your first stone then you ain’t going to get it sharp by moving up in grit
     
  15. LivingLikeLarry

    LivingLikeLarry

    12
    Aug 13, 2019
    I have been following everyone's advice but once I form a burr it's extremely hard to get rid of I tried the double angle and stroping into wood. I think my best bet is to just get it even "stropping" on the stone.
     
    bucketstove likes this.
  16. Rich S

    Rich S

    Sep 23, 2005
    D2 is notoriously difficult to sharpen. 1000 grit will do it. To get rid of any remaining butt, try 1500 grit emory on a paint paddle. Obviously only draw the blade away from the edge. Works for me and I have several D2 knives.
    Rich
     
    LivingLikeLarry likes this.
  17. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    Sep 23, 2014
    Hi,
    So you tried double the angle how exactly? What happend?
     
  18. LivingLikeLarry

    LivingLikeLarry

    12
    Aug 13, 2019
    So I was able to get a small burr when sharpening on both sides I could tell by the way it felt on my thumb, and once I did that I followed by increasing my angle to about 45 did a few passes and pretty much nothing happened to the burr it didn't budge at all. The guides I seen said it should come off within two passes. After that didn't work I tried doing even number of passes at the original angle to even it out and was left with some burrs and a dull knife. Not sure what I am doing wrong but it must be something.
     
    bucketstove likes this.
  19. Danketch

    Danketch Gold Member Gold Member

    569
    Apr 27, 2007
    Ignorant burrs that won't come off with a few double angle passes, or a quick deburr strop, i try (starting light pressure, increasing to heavier pressure) cutting into a piece of scrap 2x4/softwood. Usually gets it for me. I do 3 cuts- one at 90 degrees to the wood (straight up) and one to the left and right at about 45 *.

    This steel is slightly hard to sharpen, but really not as bas IMHO as S30V. Just keep at it on low grit (as above commented- should be able to at least cut arm hair at lowest grit if sharpened properly) until you get it. Coarse grit sharpens. Finer grits should refine your edge.
     
  20. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    Sep 23, 2014
    Hi,
    If its really big , it might take 4 or 6 or 8 or 10 or 20 double angle passes to remove it

    But if absolutely nothing happened ,
    then you probably have a burr before you've apexed,
    a burr on the side not on the apex


    grab a flashlight / strong light
    and look over the edge to see what reflections you can see

    my advice, use your 200 grit diamond, and give it 100 strokes on one side, then check for burr, repeat up to 3 times, then take a break

    commony new knives come thick with high angles,
    so raising the first burr might take a while


    Code:
    apex cut off flat (de-stressed), reflective, no burr, starting position
    
       ____
      ///\\\
     ////\\\\
    /////\\\\\
    
    
    
    Code:
    apex cut off (de-stressed), reflective, yes burr (scratchy), 
    a possible starting position 
    
      |____|
      ///\\\
     ////\\\\
    /////\\\\\
    
    
    
    Code:
    after some grinding
    yes burr, but nowhere near fully apexed , still reflective
    
       |___
      ///\\\
     ////\\\\
    /////\\\\\
    
    
    
    Code:
    after some grinding
    yes burr, but nowhere near fully apexed , still reflective
    
      |
      |____|
      ///\\\
     ////\\\\
    /////\\\\\
    
    
    
    Code:
    after some more grinding
    yes burr, getting closer but not fully apexed , still reflective
         _
      |_/\\
      ///\\\
     ////\\\\
    /////\\\\\
    
    switching sides, same deal, closer but not close enough, still reflective
        _  
       //\_|
      ///\\\
     ////\\\\
    /////\\\\\
    
    
    Code:
         _
        //          <-- a thick "burr"
       //\_             feels like a rolled edge 
      ///\\\
     ////\\\\
    /////\\\\\
    
    
    
    Code:
         
         /
        / 
       /\            <- fully apexed, you've got triangle
      //\\     almost fully sharp
     ///\\\
    ////\\\\
    
    
    
    Code:
        sharp edge, no burr left
         |
         V
        /\
       //\\
      ///\\\
    
    
     

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