How to wire PID?

Discussion in 'Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers' started by Wowndeye, Apr 21, 2016.

  1. Wowndeye

    Wowndeye

    88
    Apr 15, 2014
    Looking for some direction there because I've only done a little work with electricity and I'm not sure I'm understanding the wiring diagram right. I've done some hunting on here but just haven't found what I'm looking for so if someone could hold my hand through this or provide a link to what I need, that would be awesome!

    So what I want to do is house the components in a box that sits to the side of the kiln and then have a receptacle that the kiln plugs into on the box. I've listed below the components that I've got already but is there anything else I need? What size wiring do I use to connect the PID to the SSR?

    I'd be happy to do a small write

    The kiln I have is a small Paragon E9C which is 120v.

    So here's the parts I've received from Aubers:

    PID - http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=3
    SSR - http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=9
    Heat Sink - http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_48&products_id=244
    6" Thermocouple - http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_3&products_id=22

    Here's the link to the wiring diagram they gave me:

    http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=20

    Thanks in advance! :)
     
  2. Axeman58

    Axeman58

    19
    Aug 11, 2013
    The schematic from you posted the link to is the correct one for a 110v oven. IIRC, they recommend the wire between the PID and the SSR to be in the 18-24 gauge range. Those wires carry very small DC current, about 12 volts. Good luck.
     
  3. Wowndeye

    Wowndeye

    88
    Apr 15, 2014
    Thanks Axeman!

    So I guess I should be a little more specific as to what I don't understand as well.

    I see where the thermocouple connects and the SSR and now the gauge for the connection but the rest I don't get.

    It looks like there's a 110 line coming in with the red being the hot wire and the black being the neutral?

    It then shows a switch that the power comes through and then a fuse there on the hot just after the switch. What kind of fuse is needed there?

    If I understand that part correctly, then that's great but after that is when I get really confused. I don't understand the rest at all.

    Any more help? :)
     
  4. deker

    deker

    Nov 14, 2005
    Looking at the diagram posted, what you want to do is to just replace "heater" with your output outlet. You want the electricity to flow from the incoming power (after your shutoff switch) through the output outlet, but you need to interrupt one leg of your output outlet with the SSR to that it can break the circuit to cycle the kiln power on and off. Make sense?

    Make SURE that all of your wire to/from the switch, the power side of the SSR, and to the output outlet is rated for the load (in amps) that you will pull with the kiln. If it's too small, resistance in the wire will cause it to heat up and it could cause a fire. Also make sure that the outlet and switch you use is rated high enough for the load as well for the same reasons.
     
  5. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    If I read your question right, it is the black and red wires that you are asking about. They are as drawn - the hot and common wire. Hot is labeled L for "LINE" and common is labeled N for "NEUTRAL". This is not the color of the actual wire, but the colors used in drawing a circuit diagram. Red means HOT. This is done to prevent a ground conflict problem.

    In actual wiring, the black wire will go where the red "L" line is, and the white wire will go where the black "N" neutral line is. The green ground wire will go to the cabinet or chassis and is labeled "G" or with a little triangle of lines.
     
  6. TonyRV2

    TonyRV2

    270
    Feb 21, 2007
    Allow me to make just one suggestion. Playing around with electricity and electrical components is something best done by someone with experience. I'm sure everyone is well aware of the potential for disaster. (see what I did there :rolleyes: ). If you're not completely comfortable with wiring this up, then don't do it. I'd suggest you go to the local community college and talk to the electronics professor and see if he wouldn't be willing to have a couple students wire and assemble this under his supervision as part of their lab experience. If someone came to me ( I'm a prof at the local C.C.) I would gladly accept the opportunity....its a win-win.
     
  7. Wowndeye

    Wowndeye

    88
    Apr 15, 2014
    Thank you for the input guys!

    deker - That all makes sense. I figured I'd use the same gauge wire that was used for the existing cable on the kiln for the rest of the wiring. And does it make sense to use a 25a fuse since the SSR is 25a?

    stacy - Thanks, that's what I was guessing, thanks for the clarification.

    Tony - That may end up being Plan B here but thank you for the idea. I wouldn't have thought of that!

    I'm going to head over to the hardware store in a few minutes to get a few of the remaining items I think I need and was going to do a mockup wiring and post a picture here in hopes someone could verify the connections. I've done a little electrical work but I'm just not familiar enough with the wiring diagrams to be confident in what I was looking at.

    What is the detail about the alarm for?

    Thanks again! :)
     
  8. Lieblad

    Lieblad

    Jul 24, 2015
    [Q
    sk !
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
  9. Wowndeye

    Wowndeye

    88
    Apr 15, 2014
    Excellent Lieblad! I am familiar enough with wiring to know the standard colors for the different connections and planned on wiring it that way but yeah, I agree it would be nice if they specified that in the drawing.

    So I made it to the hardware store yesterday and despite it being the best store in town, it didn't have a handful of the items I was looking for so I just decided to get everything online.

    Your response also got me thinking about the fuse. Being that there's only going to be somewhere in the ballpark of a 15 amp draw, should I go with a 15 or 20 amp fuse as opposed to a 25?

    And yes, I'm most likely going to be using a metal enclosure.
     
  10. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    I think Professor Tony will agree with me that a schematic is not meant as a direct wiring diagram. It is the circuit diagram. I always tell people who ask about the symbols and such on a schematic that if they are not completely clear to you, you should get someone else to do the wiring.

    Wire colors vary depending on where in a device the circuit is placed, as well as the voltages and current type used. The same schematic could be used on many different systems. Just as an example, the incoming wires would likely be black/white/green if the power feed was from a 110VAC power cord that plugged in the wall socket. However, if the circuit was in a larger device and the power was coming from a power bus, the colors may be blue/white/etc.
     
  11. TonyRV2

    TonyRV2

    270
    Feb 21, 2007
    I agree 100% Stacy. I wrestle with this exact issue with students in lab every day. Just the other evening a student was wiring up a JFET whose pinout was drain, source, gate from left to right. He couldn't understand why he couldn't wire it up just as it was in the schematic which showed the terminals as drain, gate, source as most schematics tend to do. Same problem, even more so with integrated circuits (IC's) in which family the SSR's are a part of. This is why many times there will actually be two prints associated with a circuit...the schematic, and a pictorial wiring diagram. Two different things, two different purposes. Bottom line....Make doggone sure you know what your doing if you're messing with anything above 24V. The consequences can, and have been deadly, even for folks that have years of experience.
     
  12. Lieblad

    Lieblad

    Jul 24, 2015
    [q,..
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
  13. Wowndeye

    Wowndeye

    88
    Apr 15, 2014
    Alrighty... So time has finally allowed me to get to sit down and look at all this and put this thing together. I had gone the route of reaching out to my local Community College and was passed on to the professor who hasn't responded to my e-mails so I've looked over things and here's what I've come up with based on the basic diagram and parts I got. Again this is 120v and 15amp.

    I'm hoping someone can either confirm what I've drawn up or provide some clarity before attempting to tie it all together.

    I'm assembling this all in a metal box that I will ground to as well as contain all the components. The kiln will plug into an outlet I've placed on the box. I've got 14 gauge wire for tying everything together other than the 18 gauge wire that will connect the PID to the SSR.

    The switch I got is an illuminated double pole, single throw switch which is what it looked like it was asking for in the diagram but I don't see why a single pole, single throw switch wouldn't have worked. Did I miss something, and if I did, can I just use one side of the switch anyways?

    http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/wowndeye/Mobile Uploads/20160605_181220.jpg
    Just realized the above photo of my drawing doesn't show the Line of the Plug to Kiln connecting to the 2 terminal of the SSR.

    http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/wowndeye/Mobile Uploads/20160605_181425.jpg

    http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/wowndeye/Mobile Uploads/20160605_182051.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  14. Wowndeye

    Wowndeye

    88
    Apr 15, 2014
    Anyone? :D
     
  15. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    OK, your basic drawing should work.

    The switch needs the neutral and the hot wire going to it for the light to work .... that is why it is a double pole single throw switch. Just move the power side of the neutral to #2A and the circuit side to #2B. BTW, if the switch is wired in backwards, it will work, but the light will be on all the time. Make sure the A/B sides are observed.
     
  16. Wowndeye

    Wowndeye

    88
    Apr 15, 2014
    Right on Stacy! I'm going to prep everything and tie it all together outside of the box and get some pictures out to get some visual confirmation before powering up and final assembly in the box.

    Thank you again! :)
     
  17. Teppojutsu

    Teppojutsu

    947
    Jan 18, 2015
    Just a thank you to Stacy for sharing your brain :)
     
  18. Kevin McGovern

    Kevin McGovern

    Jul 31, 2015
    He doesn't mind. He's not using it.😂
     
  19. Teppojutsu

    Teppojutsu

    947
    Jan 18, 2015
    Excellent (like burns from the Simpsons )
     

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