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I know 5160 isn't everyone's cup of tea, but...

Discussion in 'Hammer & Tongs' started by Perrin, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. Perrin

    Perrin

    274
    May 12, 2013
    As I walk off the soccer field the other day and much as it has been for my almost 40 years of existence, I see my dad standing apart from the crowd waiting for me. He tells me that he has some steel for me. This is what he gives me.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    He gave me three thicknesses; a couple 3/16th thick, several .323" thick, and two that are .6 something thick and 4" wide!
    http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a603/bradosburn/DSC_0233_zps17f78536.jpg
    Check out the colors on the big pieces.
    [​IMG]
    Then I wiped them down with a little light oil. If I had enough they would make good baseboards.
    [​IMG]
    So what am I going to do with it? Well the pieces that have been prepared already are easy, have know what my next couple projects were going to be for a while now. One will be this full tang "emu and muskie" / camp knife. About 10" overall, 3/16th 5160. I don't have the ability to do a hollow grind like it probably deserves (looks wise especially with this kinda thick material for the application) but instead will look to achieve a convex bevel with plenty of distal taper. What do you think? Do any of the experienced makers see any areas that I am setting myself up for trouble? Anybody like or don't like? Mini-cobray bolts or pins are only eyeballed in the sketch as well as placement of the lanyard tube if it gets one.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    And what else would I be going to do with the thick stuff but making integral/full tang hatchets. I am not to a point of being able to forge yet and it's just waiting to be made into a chopping utensil. This is the smallest piece of .323" thick by 2.5" wide and it will make a little stacked leather handle belt hatchet or caping axe.
    [​IMG]

    Any thoughts, ideas, criticisms, or advice is welcome. Have no idea where such a post should go but since I'm not offering anything new to the collective conscientiousness and to help break in this new little area, I put it here.
     
  2. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    Pretty cool. Where did he get all that 5160?
     
  3. rwn2000

    rwn2000

    713
    Jan 6, 2003
    Could you set the 4X6 piece in a 5 gallon bucket of concrete for a makeshift anvil?

    just an idea
     
  4. jawilder

    jawilder

    Jun 27, 2006
    That's exactly what I was thinking. I imagine that 5160 would make a great anvil!
     
  5. Storm Crow

    Storm Crow KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 12, 2006
    Is the 4" x 6" stuff 5160? I'd sure love to know where he got it, if so.
     
  6. Jason Fry

    Jason Fry

    Jun 5, 2008
    I'm reading that as point 6 by four something. A little over 1/2" thick by 4" wide.

    Might could band saw it into usable bar sizes? A 1/2" square rod is plenty forgable. If you can't get set up to forge it, I bet there are folks here who would buy it.
     
  7. Perrin

    Perrin

    274
    May 12, 2013
    My dad helps manage a materials testing lab and they do metallurgical testing of steel from local mills. These were what were left from the samples. The big block is not 5160, it is 1018 and weighs about 80lbs. I have been researching how to make an anvil from it though. I have several pieces like that set back and was thinking about welding them together to make an anvil. My big question concerning this is should I use a big piece of 5160 for the surface or is there a better solution? I assume that the 1018 alone would not be hard enough to pound against. The thickest samples of 5160 I've seen so far have been 1 5/8" thick by 10" wide and about 10"-12" long. That is what the 3/16" blanks were cut from. The thickest that I have is 0.6xx" thick by 4" wide by 13" long. I was told that the mill that makes the 5160 will be producing round stock soon, as big as 3.5" diameter. I see some really cool hiro shuriken in my future. I am not interested in selling it, partly because I am just a registered user. I would be interested in trading some for 1084 1/8"-5/32" thick to start learning HT with. Or some 52100 that thick or slightly thinner. If the person is close enough to work out something in person or I will be attending the Knifemaker's Guild Show in Louisville on the 21st. This stuff is too heavy to ship efficiently.
     
  8. Jason Fry

    Jason Fry

    Jun 5, 2008
    I doubt I'll be interested in carrying a chunk of 5160 on the plane back to TX, but I'll see you at the show :)
     
  9. Perrin

    Perrin

    274
    May 12, 2013
    The point of this post was not to advertise this for trade, so in an effort to redirect any inquires about such to a more appropriate place, I made a thread in the Trading section of the Exchange.
    In the original spirit of the thread, how would you guys go about cutting blanks out if you didn't have a band saw?
     
  10. Perrin

    Perrin

    274
    May 12, 2013
    Certainly not. I look forward to meeting you as well. I see that you have a table so you shouldn't be too hard to find.
     
  11. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    Thanks - The Moderator.
     
  12. Storm Crow

    Storm Crow KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 12, 2006
    Cutting blanks - What tools do you have at your disposal?

    I have to say that getting a Harbor Freight portaband and modifying it with a cutting table and a way to clamp it in my vise has made trimming forged blades down to a particular pattern much easier. It was under $100 for it.
     
  13. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    Braze weld a piece of 5160 to the top of the big chunk of mild steel. See if you can get that heat treated. There is no way you will heat treat a piece with that mass at home.
     
  14. Perrin

    Perrin

    274
    May 12, 2013
    I have a couple of options to remove the steel at home; Bench grinder, angle grinder, dremel with cut off wheels, and hacksaw. I have looked at those portaband saws before, and in all honesty it would probably be the most cost effective.
    Checked out your sites, lots of good info there and nicely laid out as well. I like your different models of stock removal produced tomahawks. They look very effective.
     
  15. Storm Crow

    Storm Crow KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 12, 2006
    Thanks!

    Of the tools you have at hand already, the angle grinder with cutoff wheels is going to be best.
     
  16. Ka/Bar

    Ka/Bar

    7
    Sep 15, 2013
    How much do you want for one?
     
  17. Perrin

    Perrin

    274
    May 12, 2013
    Well Ka/Bar, it would be against forum rules for me to sell it here, and this place has invaluable information and people willing to share it with us. So I would like to remain in good standing. Secondly I don't really want to part with any of it. Furthermore it is way too thick to use for a basic knife, at least without a lot of work or the ability to forge. This is not the steel you are looking for.
    What is always recommended to start out with is 1080 or 1084 in a thickness of 1/8" (0.125") and of whatever width and length suits your design. If you don't want to do what is recommended and use a different type of steel then awesome, there's lots out there appropriate for cutting instruments. But you need to learn why 1084 is always recommended.
    Finally, there are so many guys that post here wanting to know how to get started or what tools they need or where to get stuff... It is all provided in the stickies. Don't skim them, read them. This is knife school and that's the first text book. Start reading at chapter one whether it interests you or not. Took me about 3 months once I decided to do it that way and I have probably read or watched 75% of it so far. There is a lot and it is free and there for the absorbing. After that you will be able to ask questions to fill in the blanks of what you still don't know.
     
  18. NickWheeler

    NickWheeler

    Dec 3, 1999
    I think 5160 is a great steel. :thumbup:

    It was the "go to" steel for many bladesmiths for quite a few years (as much or more than 1084 seems to be now). The main reason a lot of makers quit using it was issues with inclusions. You'd get a blade hand sanded to 320X or 600X before you'd see them.

    Guys who managed to have a good, clean source--- Karl Andersen always comes to mind because he got ahold of a truckload of 1" square stuff that was smelted in (I think) the 80s.

    Sounds like you have quite a resource with your Dad... both in getting the steel as well as being able to help you with metallurgy info.

    I know you said you're not looking to sell any of this, but I've been looking for a source of large-ish round stock for quite awhile with no luck (like 1-3/4" diameter). So if you could help point us in the right direction when/if that mill starts rolling out the round stock, I would sure appreciate it! :)

    BTW- as per your knife sketch--- I like it a lot! My only criticism is that you have plenty of steel to put a nice, gentle arc/curve to the spine, but you have it drawn with a fairly straight spine/handle like you were trying to fit it onto a narrower bar of steel. Since you have the steel to spread it out more, I'd recommend you do. :)

    As far as your anvil block... I would just peen the hell out of it because you will cause some work hardening effect (even on mild steel) and use it like that for now. Adding a hardened (or at least hardenable) face to that is a very big can of worms.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  19. Travis Fry

    Travis Fry

    404
    Jun 11, 2010
    I agree with this, and would add that I think this applies to all of the sketches you've drawn. They look good (better than most posted around here, in fact), but would look better with curves. Good luck with all that steel. If it seems like you'll have regular access to such stock, I would think that would fairly seriously influence the order and priority of your equipment purchase/construction so that you can fully take advantage of it.
     
  20. Perrin

    Perrin

    274
    May 12, 2013
    That is some awesome feed back Nick and Travis, thanks. Your powers of perceptions are right on. Those sketches are deliberately sized to fit a certain size stock and I think that they could use a little more curvature as well. I'm still working out proportions and honestly my sketches with more curve still look a little awkward. I get the most success putting the bulk of the curve in the hidden tang and handle of bowie types. I can't take credit for the basic shape of the full tang knife, it is heavily influenced by a custom knife that I saved a picture of because I really, really liked it. I've done a search for this maker and can't find anything out about him except that it might be a guy in GA. His makers mark just says McGinnis and the pic is titled Kens M3Camp. It is pictured with a couple 8rd .22LR speed loaders. It took me a long time to get the handle to look correct and now that I have it cut out I know a few tweaks I want to make. A wood mock up would have been good here beyond the paper and foam board ones that I did do. The purpose of this build is to tackle a defined plunge line and work out this handle some. As for the design in general; the blade length can vary from 3" out to 7.5" and still look right so it will be good to practice HT with in the 2 brick forge I am gathering materials to build. Also that is why it fits within 1"-1.25" wide, basic cheap 1084 stock steel size. I still have another piece of this 5160 steel, 3/16th" by 1 5/8" by 10" and am planning to blank out a hidden tang with it. We'll see if we can't take a little more advantage of that 1 5/8th" of steel this time.

    Question, in my sketches above of the hidden tang knife, am I allowing enough meat in the top of the handle material above the hidden tang? Also I seem to like about a half inch wide hidden tang, is this enough steel for the tang of the knife? Thanks again for the feed back.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013

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