Initial Impressions of the Camillus EDC

Discussion in 'Knife Reviews & Testing Archive' started by Buzzbait, Mar 28, 2001.

  1. Bud Guy

    Bud Guy

    12
    Mar 30, 2001
    Impressive! [​IMG]
     
  2. Blilious

    Blilious

    Dec 30, 1999
    You guys are impossible - now I HAVE to get me one...1SKS - here I come...
     
  3. SALTY

    SALTY Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 19, 2000
    Any chance of getting a larger sized EDC with 154CM or better? This could be the start of something.

    Maybe BG-42 or VG-10?
     
  4. Darrel Ralph

    Darrel Ralph Moderator Moderator

    Dec 14, 1998
    Nim
    YA, Im Just finishing several 4 inch bladed EDC folders in Carbon fiber and ti frames!

    I would love to see a production version !



    ------------------
    Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
    MADD MAXX !
     
  5. phatch

    phatch

    Oct 3, 1998
    I've been having fun with mine.

    A few more comments.

    The clip is quite grippy with the cutouts and pressure creating a sort of pressure ridge in the fabric. I like that security. I suspect that it might a be a bit agressive in fabric wear in the long run. Have to wait and see.

    To it's great benefit, the clip is well out of the way of the frame lock. I was so bothered with the clip interfering with the lock on the BM 750 that I had to dump the clip on that knife, even though I am generally a clip fan. With the lock and the clip right next to each other, you can greatly skew the grip and create friction points as well as interfere with operating the lock. The BM has its flaws there. The EDC avoids them altogether.

    For the warranty voiding crowd, the frame/scale screws are well locked with the permanent type thread locker. You'll want to heat the screws with a soldering iron or defeat the thread lock in some way before tampering with the screws or you'll likely tear out the drive interface for the torx driver. Voice of experience here...

    The handle is well behaved and thinner than I was anticipating. It wasn't prone to slipping or skewing in use though. Very elegant. The stainless steel look lends itself to the gentleman's style of knife and should also be engravable as a special gift?

    It's a small knife so you may experience some crowding getting all your fingers where you want them on the handle. I have small hands so I fit, but it was somewhat tight in some grips.

    I tend to develop rust easily in stainless steel liners (BM 705 rusts between scales and liners for example) so I am somewhat concerned over the many nooks and crannies the cutouts provide for potential rust and difficult cleaning. The cotton swabs I have did not fit in the slots so I'll have to look for some more convenient tools for cleaning and treating those areas.

    The action in the pivot is very smooth with no play in any direction. It came adjusted nicely from the factory. I thought the O-ring between the pivot screw and the bearing itself was a nice touch, something I hadn't seen before.

    The detent is fairly strong, holding the blade tightly closed. On my sample the detent and stop pin don't precisely coincide. The detent catches fully just before the pin and will hold the blade all by itself. So in the closed position, there is a bit of play in the further closed position if you apply pressure. It promptly returns to the detent position and is secure. This may be as designed. It's not a problem, just a difference I haven't seen before.

    My sample's blade is not precisely centered between the handles. It's not far off and will not rub the handles.

    The washer on the lock side has a flattened section designed to coincide with the cutout for the frame lock. The washer spins though so sometimes you see washer and sometimes you don't.

    Because of the recurve blade shape, there is a grind discontinuity between the narrowest portion of the blade and the widest. The grind is flat at the narrowest and then there is almost a "bench" between the grind and the edge bevel in the areas the flat grind can't quite reach. It's only noticable in light reflection, and is not displeasing, just a bit disconcerting the first time you see it.

    A higher grade blade steel is desirable.
    The blade came shaving sharp, so the steel can take an edge. After a few inches of cardboard cutting, (the packing box) the blade would no longer cut paper cleanly but tore in the cut for some envelopes I was opening from the mail. It tended to snag in some plastic sheeting instead of cutting cleanly and so on.

    The sharpening experience was odd, for me at least. Granted, I do not have great technique for a recurve blade shape using the Sharpmaker 204. But this blade was more difficult to restore to a shaving sharpness than I thought it would be based on how quickly the cutting performance degraded.

    I'm looking forward to the BFC versionin the better steel that should be here today.

    Phil


     
  6. phatch

    phatch

    Oct 3, 1998
    The BFC EDC came yesterday. Besides the better steel, the clip is slightly different.

    The standard production clip flares back out slightly into the lock bar cutout and towards the overall line of the handle. The BFC clip parallels the cutout and the handle line.

    The slots in the BFC clip also match the slots in the handle much better.

    Except for that and the blade stamping, they are the same.

    Phil
     
  7. Buzzbait

    Buzzbait

    Feb 25, 2001
    Thanks Phil. I have a standard EDC and two 154CM versions arriving today. I was a little worried that I wouldn't know which model was which. I could have used them to find the difference, but two are gifts to enthusiastic family members. I'd have hated giving them used EDCs.

    I'm wondering if your observations about the slots is just variation in the hole drilling. The pocket clip slots in my standard EDC perfectly match the slots in the handle.
     
  8. Will Fennell

    Will Fennell

    Oct 4, 1998
    Phil,
    Thanks for being a "double" EDC/CUDA customer!

    The clips are the same on the 2 knives. I wonder if the clip on standard EDC may be miss aligned slightly. They holes should line up on both. If you would email me your phone #, I would like to discuss this with you.

    [email protected]

    I look forward to talking to you.



    ------------------
    Stay Sharp!
    Will Fennell
    Camillus Cutlery
    www.camillusknives.com
     
  9. phatch

    phatch

    Oct 3, 1998
    Talked to Will. Nice guy.

    Looks like some of my descriptions about the clip was a misalignment and some slight variations in manufacturing, such as the drilling the clip holes and some assembly misalignment.

    He offered to replace it, but I declined. The knife was easily reassembled to a good standard.

    (Begin Edit)He also explained how the "bench" effect I saw is really a flat grind to all the way to the edge, but is a result of the manual buffing. My sample was slightly unevenly buffed, causing me to see something that wasn't.

    Phil

    [This message has been edited by phatch (edited 04-12-2001).]
     
  10. prn

    prn

    481
    Apr 26, 1999
    I have a new Every Day Carry -- the Camillus/BFC 154CM version. To bring the bottom line right up to the top: My thumbs are up.

    Some other comments: This is a very stylish and sturdy knife. A very high cool factor! I just got it yesterday, so I can't really say all that much yet, but it's got a lot going for it. The design is elegant. It's so simple. The two handle slabs are joined only at the pivot, the stop pin and another pin at the other end, so the back is entirely open, yet the slabs are completely stable and rigid. The way the numerous small cutouts match up on the two slabs and the clip is elegant and impressive. That's something you can see in the pictures, but it is especially neat in person.

    If it's going to live up to its name, it will have to displace my BM 705 to become my everyday carry. So I'll mention a few comparisons with the 705 here.

    I've never really liked the feel of the textured G10 on the 705. It's very grippy, but also pretty aggressive. I really like the bead-blast finish on the handles of the EDC. Combined with the cutouts, the knife does not feel at all slippery. Admittedly, I haven't given it any severe tests, but so far it feels secure and comfortable. The cutouts are terrific. Not only for looks, but the weight of the knife is quite good. Although the steel slabs are thicker than the steel liners of the 705, the two knives' weights are almost identical, both to my hand and to the kitchen scale that I compared them on. The EDC is less than 3/4 of the thickness of the 705, which is quite nice.

    The EDC really packs an incredible amount of blade. The handle is perhaps 1/8" longer than that of the 705, and the length of the open blade seems to be almost identical, but the blade of the EDC seems to dwarf the 705 blade. You wonder where it all came from. [​IMG]

    I like the finish of the handles, but I have to say that so far, I'm less sure of the blade finish. (Is this stonewashed?) I don't strongly DISlike it, but I'm not yet sure I like it either. It seems very dull. There isn't much sheen to it. I'm not into "combat" blades so I don't feel like I need a "surpressed" blade. Maybe it'll grow on me.

    The blade on mine locks up very tightly and solidly. When it's locked, it does not move at all. It takes a positive effort to unlock. It will not come unlocked accidentally. The blade is centered between the handle slabs perfectly, or if it is imperfect, it would take a micrometer to detect it. OTOH, the edge grind is less than spectacular. It is pretty visibly not symmetrical and although it is ok for a factory edge, it is not by any means great. I'm only pretty good as a sharpener. My knives normally do okay on the hanging paper tests, but can't cleanly cut toilet paper or do the "snap rubber bands into large numbers of pieces" trick. Furthermore, my knives tend to get sharper the longer I own them, which also says that I can't be counted on to get them right the first time. [​IMG] I expect to improve the edge of the EDC as soon as I get a chance to work on it. This is by no means a big deal to me, since I will have to sharpen it anyway as I use it, but it would be nice to be able to say I was impressed, as a couple of forumites have.

    The only other quibble I have is that the pivot of mine seems very tight. The pivot screw looks like an allen head rather than torx. Someone commented on the need to heat the clip screws with a soldering iron to loosen the locktite. Do you need to do the same to the pivot screw? Or is it just that the detente is extremely strong? In any case, the knife is not easy to open. I like the fact that it takes effort to close, but the knife rides tip down in the pocket so it isn't going to fall open. It seems like it ought to be easier to open than it is.

    Overall, I like it, but if it is going to become my real "everyday carry" I will certainly want to get it adjusted so that it opens easier.



    ------------------
    Paul Neubauer
    [email protected]
    A tool is, basically, an object that enables you to take advantage of the laws of physics and mechanics in such a way that you can seriously injure yourself.
     
  11. Will Fennell

    Will Fennell

    Oct 4, 1998
    Paul,
    Glad you like your EDC! Do NOT heat the pivot screw, as it is not 'locktited'. Under the pivot is a rubber 'O' ring the helps keep the pivot from loosening. Heat could melt the O ring. The rest of the screws have a dab of locktite.

    The resistance you feel is probally from the lockbar and detent. These knives have a good, strong detent for safety, and with a steel framelock pushing on the detent, it can take some force to override, unlike a thin liner-lock. If you loosen the pivot excessively, the lockbar will push the blade off-center when it closes into the frame. Keep the pivot relatively tight, and the knife will work correctly, and lock up tight as a drum. Of course there is some adjustment room for personal preference.

    I like mine pretty tight, so that the detent offers initial resistance, which seems to aid in a crisp 'thumbstud flick'. YMMV.

    On the edge grind. We strive for perfection, but that is a HAND process. The folks in the sharpening room goal is sharpness first, even grind second. Usually these go hand in hand, but sharpness is the primary goal. Was the knife sharp out of the box?

    Yup, that is a stonewash type tumble finish on the blade. We find it helps corrosion resistance more than bead blast or scotchbrite. Also, we wanted the BFC 154cm EDC's to be visually different than the regular 420HC EDC's.

    Anyway, thanks for being a customer!



    ------------------
    Stay Sharp!
    Will Fennell
    Camillus Cutlery
    www.camillusknives.com
     
  12. prn

    prn

    481
    Apr 26, 1999
    Thanks, Will.

    Regarding the edge, I've got no real complaints. It's OK. It is a factory edge, after all. Cosmetically it's not perfect, and it's not one of those edges that just blow you away like some of the custom makers are famous for. Still, in the important respects, it's fine. It's clear there is some variability but nothing disfunctional. It will take hair off my arm, slice paper reasonably cleanly, etc. It could be sharper, but I don't really expect it to be. The variation in symmetry is visible but also not disfunctional. And, more importantly, the blade is centered well in the handle.

    The opening is another story. I think you're right that it is mainly the detent. There is a very strong resistance at first, but rather than a "crisp" opening snap following that, the pivot still seems pretty sluggish. There is constant lower-level resistance throughout the opening rather than a smooth and easy opening. It's like you're pushing something through molasses rather than air. I think the detent of the lock bar pushing against the tang of the blade provides quite a bit of resistance.

    Then, there's the lock-release. I'm getting a sore thumb from pushing back that lock bar. Maybe I'm just a wimp, but it seems really strong. I don't think this knife is going to become my everyday carry right away. I'll give my thumb tip some time to recover and then try again. Maybe I'll run through that cycle a time or two and see if it seems to get better (or my thumb gets tougher).

    If not, the knife will probably still go into my carry rotation, just not as the primary member of the rotation. Did I mention that it's elegant? [​IMG]


    ------------------
    Paul Neubauer
    [email protected]
    A tool is, basically, an object that enables you to take advantage of the laws of physics and mechanics in such a way that you can seriously injure yourself.
     
  13. Darrel Ralph

    Darrel Ralph Moderator Moderator

    Dec 14, 1998
    Paul
    With the bad press that locking liner type knives have gotten in the past the folks at Camillus wanted FUNCTION.
    The pivot will get smoother after a little time The washers have to seat.
    Put a drop or two of oil in the pivot and work it in . That should help. As for the detent... a good detent is good! Dont want the knife open in your pocket. Give it some oil and a little break in time . It should start to get silky smooth.

    If not Ill take care of it for you.
    The lock on mine has just enough pressure to give positive locking force that I feel good about. I feel the blade wont close on my hand!
    The detent is positive. As Will mentioned a crisp kick with the thumb will open it to a nice snap !



    ------------------
    Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
    MADD MAXX !
     
  14. prn

    prn

    481
    Apr 26, 1999
    Thanks, Darrel.

    I'll do that. I'll oil it and work it and see how it goes. I agree 100% that I don't want it open in my pocket. That could get real painful, real fast.

    So far, a crisp kick with the thumb gets the detente out of the detente hole, but the push is still slow and not at all crisp. I'll work it for a few days and see how it goes. I'm sure you know what to do [​IMG] so I'll happily follow your advice. If I have to take you up on your offer I'll do that, but first I'll take your advice. [​IMG]

    Really, I think the design is terrific and the build is good where it counts. The quibbles I have had with it ought to be quite minor. It's a very cool knife. This morning, my 10-year-old son noticed the different clip (right away) and asked "what's that?" so got a good look at it and thought it was pretty cool. The knife is tight now, but I'll work it to see if it will smooth out.

    Thanks to both you and Will.


    ------------------
    Paul Neubauer
    [email protected]
    A tool is, basically, an object that enables you to take advantage of the laws of physics and mechanics in such a way that you can seriously injure yourself.
     
  15. PsychRN

    PsychRN

    545
    Sep 29, 1999
    I bought three at the same time too!

    ------------------
    "How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a thankless child.", King Lear, Act I, Scene 4.
     
  16. PhilL

    PhilL

    Oct 1, 1999
    I've been carrying my EDC for about 10 days and I just got back from the park where I spent some time whittling on a seasoned maple branch trying to dull the factory edge. The knife came with a good working edge, but after using my 204 on it it's considerably sharper now. I have to confess the first time I opened the knife I flicked it open. The detent is strong, but mine isn't stiff. The locking bar is still a bit sticky, but it's getting easier.
    Because of it's so slim I'm enjoying carrying IWB and freeing up my right pocket where I used to carry my Spydie/Walker lt/wt. Everyone that's seen it so far likes it.
    Nice work Darrel and Will.

    ------------------
    "Will work 4 Knives!"
    My PhotoPoint Site
     
  17. Buzzbait

    Buzzbait

    Feb 25, 2001
    I've been playing with the 154CM EDC for a few days now, and I positively love it. The fit and finish on the two I purchased were great. The locking bars met up perfectly with the blades, and the grinds were perfect.

    As far as opening resistance goes, I encountered the same problem as PRN. When I disassembled each of the new EDCs, the pins were very hard to remove. Once I got them removed, it was like a bur was worn off the teflon washers or something. I put them back together, and they're much smoother. Taking them apart was like an instant break-in.

    I will mention that one of the blades had a small nick in it, near the tip. It was probably missed by QC because it was only easily visible from one side. Fortunately, I got my new Sharpmaker 204 in the same shipment. A half hour later and the nick was history..... and the EDC was SCARY sharp!!! The initial factory edge was very good, but that Sharpmaker is amazing on the EDC 154CM. I thought the odd shape of the blade would make it tough to sharpen, but it was a piece of cake.

    If you ask me, the 154CM EDC blows away others in its price range; at least ones that I've seen. It has a classy look all its own, has primo steel, the best pocket clip I've used, an awesome lock, and oustanding fit and finish. Now that I think about it, how many other 154CM knives are there at the 154 EDC price?

    Now...... when can I get a larger Camillus EDC with Talonite? With one of those, I would finally have the ultimate utility knife. :)

    "This is the control voice. I have taken over your Internet connection. You will now order at least one 154CM EDC."
     
  18. Will Fennell

    Will Fennell

    Oct 4, 1998
    No problem Buzzbait,
    Darrel will build you one any way you want [​IMG]



    ------------------
    Stay Sharp!
    Will Fennell
    Camillus Cutlery
    www.camillusknives.com
     
  19. Jazzman

    Jazzman

    Jan 11, 2001
    Great. Another knife I have to buy. Oh well. Matt
     
  20. MikeyLikesIt

    MikeyLikesIt

    35
    Apr 26, 2000
    My two 154CM EDC's just arrived today! One combo-edged, the other plain. Both were sharp out of the box,lock up tight, with no blade play. As previously mentioned by others, they are relatively small knives that just "feel bigger". This was my first observation after making mince-meat out of the box they came in! The plain one has no flaws whatsoever. The combo-edged one however has a clip that isnt seated tightly like the plain one. Once I get my torx kit, I will make it right. I must say that for a steel handled knife, these are very grippy and I have no reservations whatsoever about giving them a hard workout. Also they are a great fit in the change pocket on a pair of jeans. My compliments to Mr.Ralph and to Camillus, Thanks for a great product, at a great price!
     

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