Let's talk civil unrest/war weapons.

Discussion in 'Sword Discussion' started by Gh0zt36, Aug 29, 2020.

  1. Gh0zt36

    Gh0zt36

    148
    Aug 17, 2013
    Yea , I don't know . I couldnt have ever imagined seriously considering it myself . The internet and social media more importantly has tactically divided this country in a way not possible before using weaponized connections and targeted marketing and ads to make money . Netflix of all places just dropped a documentary on it recently called " The Social Dilema " About how google facebook and twitter are manipulating us into civil war .

    So I dont think these specific dynamics of this current paradigm have ever been seen in history prior to this time period. And people are virulently polarized and you can see the pot simmering . So now ? I'm not so convinced we won't see an instance of the event horizon I outlined. And I'd rather be ready for it than not and hope it doesnt happen .

    To your suggestion , you dont think a smatchet is too small ? My train of thought is if I was facing a small patrol sized squad Id want something a little longer to keep them at bay . Smatchet distance they have the option to start grappling to disarm you . And you cant get much of a swing on multiple tangos at that range.
     
  2. Gh0zt36

    Gh0zt36

    148
    Aug 17, 2013
    Right , which was part of my supposition . Many including I don't have training with longer melee tools . And I have no training with a spear . So whatever suggested would be something someone could operate with not much knowlege of the dynamics of the tool itself. Are those blade on spears like that fairly stout and could impact something like bone without coming loose ?
     
  3. scarysamcary

    scarysamcary Basic Member Basic Member

    106
    Jul 28, 2020
    I 100% recommend the spear as the primary weapon. Swords were considered sidearms historically with very few exceptions. I have been in and seen enough mixed sparring to know the benefit of reach, especially in a skirmish. The Academy of Historic Fencing has a youtube page with lots of mixed sparring videos you may be interest in. They certainly aren't perfect as these people certainly specialize in some areas over others, but I love the variety of scenarios you get to see.


    The smatchet was incredibly useful at close range in trenches (and as a tool everywhere else), but like most blades it should function as a sidearm.
     
  4. scarysamcary

    scarysamcary Basic Member Basic Member

    106
    Jul 28, 2020
    Matt Easton of Scholagladiatoria has made several videos discussing why he would outfit the wholly untrained with spears because of how simple they are to fight with. One afternoon with a spear can make you adequate, while a longsword or katana can take years to truly get the hang of.
     
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  5. Houlahound

    Houlahound Basic Member Basic Member

    Aug 2, 2017
    I think a sword would be easier to grapple against especially in your CQC scenario.

    As for weapons I believe that more depends on discipline and commitment of fighters, training, terrain, availability of armour, organisation and communication .....etc.

    I follow a lot of HEMA, It's generally considered childish to ask which is the best weapon... interestingly that is the most commonly asked question by noobs. It's basically the least important question or more precisely the last question asked after all other realities are addressed first.
     
  6. RoyalHolic

    RoyalHolic Gold Member Gold Member

    630
    Aug 3, 2019
    Hypothetically speaking if all the ammunition just ran out.

    I'd be fine with my gransfors forest axe and side hatchet.
     
  7. Gh0zt36

    Gh0zt36

    148
    Aug 17, 2013
    Actually , I cant even consider the terrain and surrounding and what someone may be wearing as far as armor . Cause we aren't there yet .


    I meant this thread so people trained with long melee weapons or even fixed blade knives if thats their choice to give an informed decision to less knowledgeable folks like myself. I've trained a bit with swords but just a bit . As far as spears and such no training at all .
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
  8. scarysamcary

    scarysamcary Basic Member Basic Member

    106
    Jul 28, 2020
    But as HEMA practitioners (or any other martial arts practitioner) it is our job to answer that question honestly every time it is asked. The answer every time is "It depends" and then we have to explain why. It seems OP was more asking "what weapon (or weapons) would you outfit yourself with if you had to forage for supplies in the terrifying fictional scenario he set forth?"
     
  9. Gh0zt36

    Gh0zt36

    148
    Aug 17, 2013
    I know its just a TV show but Rick used a Cold steel axe gang hatchet in one of the seasons . I actually have that hatchet .

    I guess smatchets and hatchets and even a camp axe would be light and maneuverable to manipulate with a bit of training. I just figured a longer sword would keep the fight away from your body a bit . But then someone said that would probably more conducive to grappling away from the operator than a smatchet . Thats what this thread is all about . Folks sharing their knowledge . Gransfors Bruks hatchet sounds like a good choice.
     
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  10. Houlahound

    Houlahound Basic Member Basic Member

    Aug 2, 2017

    Good point, for my weapons of choice I take my cue from the Vietcong;

    - Intimate knowledge of the natural landscape

    - Turn the natural landscape into the most horrific anti- personel weapon

    - other people of strong character spiritually, physically and mentally united in common goal.

    - unbreakable will and resilience.

    - Guerilla tactics, avoid fights unless it's on your terms.

    Oh and pointy sticks or metal.
     
  11. Gh0zt36

    Gh0zt36

    148
    Aug 17, 2013
    So the weapon itself is almost purely personal preference and doesnt necessarily matter?
     
  12. Houlahound

    Houlahound Basic Member Basic Member

    Aug 2, 2017
    I only say that mainly because in your scenario it is extremely unlikely you would ever come up against anyone who knew anything about sword fighting.
     
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  13. scarysamcary

    scarysamcary Basic Member Basic Member

    106
    Jul 28, 2020
    Something smaller like a smatchet keeps all the killy bits close and is much quicker to react with than a longsword. It kills quick in the super-close range that grappling takes place in. Unfortunately it is short and therefore only kills in that range and can't protect you from incoming steel. Axes have historically been very effective tools of war, plus they bring a utilitarian aspect as tools. The issue is choosing a head, do you go for a classic tool grind to cut wood or do you go with the much thinner, lighter battle axe grind designed for combat.
     
  14. Houlahound

    Houlahound Basic Member Basic Member

    Aug 2, 2017
    No, you are completely missing the point.

    Name me any soldier anywhere, any time that was totally free to choose whatever weapon they wanted in a battle.

    Humans have been fighting forever and they never get free choice of weapon.

    The very wealthiest had more choices but they were still massively constrained.

    Or are you asking in a pure fantasy way? If so then a ray-gun that goes pweew, pweew and takes out buildings.
     
  15. scarysamcary

    scarysamcary Basic Member Basic Member

    106
    Jul 28, 2020
    So long as you train with that weapon it often comes down to personal preference, though without a spear reach becomes an issue. Obviously the quality of the steel, weight, balance, etc is gonna be important, but in your price range you could probably get a fine copy of any sword/axe/whatever you please.
     
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  16. scarysamcary

    scarysamcary Basic Member Basic Member

    106
    Jul 28, 2020
    The OP has clearly described the fictional scenario he is seeking input on.
    5v5 open field skirmish without use of ranged weapons.
     
  17. Gh0zt36

    Gh0zt36

    148
    Aug 17, 2013
    Theyre pretty cheap too http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=600314&name=Zulu+Iklwa+Short+Spear
     
  18. Gh0zt36

    Gh0zt36

    148
    Aug 17, 2013
    I get it . Alot of you think this scenario is unthinkable . 10 years ago I would have wholeheartedly agreed . In 2020 and beyond ? I just don't think the idea is so out there , but thats me ..
     
  19. Houlahound

    Houlahound Basic Member Basic Member

    Aug 2, 2017

    Ok then, Halberd.
     
  20. Gh0zt36

    Gh0zt36

    148
    Aug 17, 2013
    5 or less I said . Im guessing other opposing scavengers would be in small groups . And I may and probably would be by myself ( kinda my nature . I tend to drift off by myself when in large groups ) or perhaps could be again in group up to 5 .

    Not necessarilly 5v5 . That actually seems like the extreme . I could imagine most likely would be 3 v me
     

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