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OKC's SP series 1095 switch to 1075 steel...

Discussion in 'Ontario Knife Company' started by PocketKnifeJimmy, Jun 24, 2018.

  1. Yonose

    Yonose

    Jul 10, 2017
    Your link seemed to confirm what I said. “A salt water bath after heat treat” ie slowly cooling via salt water. I forgot to add the word “cooling” as I assumed it would be obvious. Thanks for the link though, good stuff. I wonder how they cool 5160.
     
  2. buckfynn

    buckfynn

    480
    May 1, 2011
    Please quote from my link where you see a salt water bath?

    All I see is that it mentions "molten" salt bath which is not the same as a water salt bath. Do you understand the difference between the two?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  3. buckfynn

    buckfynn

    480
    May 1, 2011
    @Yonose Below are photos of a show a molten salt bath in action.

    "Would like to share my process of heat treating CPM-3V,
    This was done at the knife shop of my friend. I lets the worker perform because molten nitrate salt is quit dangerous to who's inexperienced.
    Let the picture speak for itself :D
    Here is my process.
    Stainless foil wrapped
    Stress relief at 1125F soak 2hour, furnace cool overnight
    Austenitizing 1960F
    Quench in 500F molten nitrate salt, equalize for 2 minute
    Air cool
    Remove foil and straight to L2N, soak overnight
    2 x Temper at 400F each"
    [​IMG]
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    Compliments of shqxk. The initial thread can be found at this link at BF.
     
    Beastchopper and Yonose like this.
  4. dingy

    dingy

    Feb 19, 2008
    Hi Yonose, I have both 1075 and 1095 sp10s , just have expriences using 1095 ones , can you feel the diffriences between 1095 and 1075 ones on cutting and chopping retention?
     
  5. buckfynn

    buckfynn

    480
    May 1, 2011
    @Yonose In the link below is another interesting discussion here on BF concerning marquenching.

    Salt bath ?

    Notice in post # 2 of the thread by JCaswellwhere he mentions the potential dangers of water and oil when dealing with molten salt baths.

    ...I've used these things for probably 10 years and have never been burned (which is more than I can say for forging).
    Obviously you want to keep water or oil out of your salt bath when it's at temperature because these things cause sputtering and popping as they vaporize (in high-temp salt) and that can get messy and potentially dangerous. I always wear a full face shield and welding gloves when using the hot salts--usually a welding jacket too...
     
  6. Yonose

    Yonose

    Jul 10, 2017
    I can feel that the 1095 version works better at chopping, both in terms of performance and edge retention. It’s subtle, but with the weight of the blade being what it is it makes a difference to me. Batoning or prying, can’t really tell the difference. They both will chip and/or roll at the edge if abused.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
    buckfynn likes this.
  7. Yonose

    Yonose

    Jul 10, 2017

    You obviously know more (an incredible understatement)about the subject than myself. I didn’t mean that it was a bath comparable to a “warm water bath.” Different salts have different temperatures at which they change states, I guess I assumed there was something else in solution which brought that number down enough where it would cool, rather than reheat (or actually melt) the steel. That and the preface “mar”— meaning “sea” is apparently misleading to the uninformed. At those temperatures, is it possible that some elements from the salt combine with those of the steel? Specifically, sodium or potassium or calcium nitrate molecules unbonding and replacing some of the carbides with nitrides? I’m sure my utter lack of knowledge of the fundamentals of chemistry is frustrating, so apologies for that (both retroactively and in advance.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
    buckfynn likes this.
  8. Yonose

    Yonose

    Jul 10, 2017
    Gotcha. I see what you mean.
     
    buckfynn likes this.
  9. dingy

    dingy

    Feb 19, 2008
    thank you for sharing your exprience , cool.
     
    buckfynn likes this.
  10. Roguer

    Roguer

    842
    Jan 5, 2015
    5160 SP-10 with full tang and micarta handle and solid pummel tang type like on RDs and such. Yes and with Hilt. :D
     
    dingy, Yonose and Beastchopper like this.
  11. mark70

    mark70

    38
    Apr 8, 2017
    in a website I read that the most recent models of sp-10 have a greater thickness around 6.80 mm instead of 6.35 mm

    it would be to check with users who have purchased newer models (from April, December 2016 / 2017/2018/2019), mine is from March 2016 the thickness is 6.35 mm

    :D (hypothesize) :D that Ontario when replacing steels in the SP-10 marine raiders from 1095c to 1075c it also increases the thickness thus compensating for the performance gap between the two steels taking it from 6.35 mm to 6.80 mm :D (repeated this is just my hypothesis) :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  12. Blue Sky

    Blue Sky Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 16, 2002
    By all accounts 1075 is tougher than 1095 so making it thicker should be the opposite of necessary. More likely 1075 comes in slightly thicker stock from the manufacturer so they just went with it, or it has a heavier coating?
     
  13. mark70

    mark70

    38
    Apr 8, 2017
    1075 c has less carbon percentage (it is more suitable to be used in the woods (survival) 1075c is a softer steel than 1095 c for this reason (I hypothesized) that ontario had increased its thickness, so as not to make the bowie bend in the points most subject to stress (the tip and the tang)

    I believe that the 1075 c used on the new sp-10 was a correct choice a coating of the blade would often do nothing but stop the bowie during the cutting phase :rolleyes:
     
  14. jux t

    jux t

    387
    Jan 10, 2018
    I'll have to double check, but I believe my 1075 sp5 is thinner and lighter than my 1095 versions.
     
    Beastchopper likes this.
  15. msass74

    msass74 Gold Member Gold Member

    907
    Mar 28, 2010
    My sp1 says sepy 2018 on the box so it must be 1075 but i also have the sp1-95 (older version ) love them both
     
  16. Beastchopper

    Beastchopper Basic Member Basic Member

    131
    Jun 23, 2018
    I blasted Ontario's switch over before, but some of that was my personal dissapointment that they were moving to the same steel as condor. For a cheapo dude like me that loves big fat chopping machetes, I prefer a wider variety of steels from two of my favorite makers.
    To the guy thats complaining about the sp-5 switch over, if he convex's the edge of that beast, it will bite better and hold it's shape against any kind of rock-solid hardwood. Also, Ontarios are cheaper than kbars for the most part. For USA made large blades, Ontario comes in at a very low price point. Probably the lowest in their class. It makes sense for them to tightly control costs on their value based products. While it is a pain in the ass to resharpen the blades more often, it is true that my Condor 1075 machetes have only taken chips when contacting rock/grit on a root, or a chop that followed through to the ground. My 1095 Junglas has taken chips from wood, one of which is almost too deep to sharpen out. Ontario's 5160 will not chip or roll no matter how much abuse I heap on it, but like the 1075, it does need to be resharpened a little more often. Also, 1075 sharpens up much faster and easier than other HC steels. It's very noticable. I think a lot of people use and think about smaller knives than the big heavy machetes I use, and in that instance, the value of edge retention > toughness. I prefer toughness and value to edge retention and a higher price point.
     

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