Overbuilt folders : Yes or no?

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by patrickguignot, Sep 3, 2018.

  1. sharp_edge

    sharp_edge Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 30, 2015
    You should. Tri ad lock may not be as fun and easy to operate than framelock flippers for new users but once you get used to it, it is not difficult at all. CS tri ad lock folders do not have many bling elements but they are absolutely the safest once the blade is locked.
     
  2. ROCK6

    ROCK6

    Feb 8, 2004
    For most, they are simply smoother actions, especially for flipper versions. For cost, simplicity, and most likely ergonomics, I think the TriAd locks are likely the strongest and most robust. I don't know of any that are "easier" to open or close than other lock types, but for a hard-use folder, they are simply the best value and choice.

    Most users of folders don't use their folders hard enough to test the locking mechanisms. The robust mechanisms that are more complicated are often more expensive and typical users aren't going to push the locking mechanism of a folder costing $500-plus just to see how well it holds up. Most liner and frame locks are more than adequate as a typical EDC.

    Innovation is good and I've seen so many different locking mechanisms, it's hard to assess what is really "worth it" for a hard-use folder. While I'm not necessarily a Cold Steel fan, I fully recognize their TriAd locking folders are some of the better hard-use folders on the market and at reasonable prices (although, the 4Max is pretty expensive for a production folder...but Demko does deserve his royalties!).

    ROCK6
     
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  3. Lapedog

    Lapedog

    Dec 7, 2016
    I definitely agree that liner and framelocks are strong enough for pretty much anything a folding knife should be used for. That is provided it has proper geometry. I somehow doubt they are the easiest locks to build. They also seem to suffer from nuisance issues more often than other locks. Lock stick, lock rock, lock slip, etc.

    While liner and framelocks are typically smoother than backlocks I don’t find them smoother than many other locks. Liner/framelocks have the detent ball exerting pressure on the side of the tang of a folder due to lockbar pressure. Other locks like button locks, compression locks or axis locks you can hold the lock open and then the blade swings free with the only friction being the pivot and bearings or washer.
     
  4. ROCK6

    ROCK6

    Feb 8, 2004
    Agreed. The Axis locks can be extremely smooth, yet are a very reputable and strong locking mechanism. I have a Hogue plunge lock that is extremely smooth and (so far) quite strong. I also prefer compression locks over liner locks, but I've carried both a Spyderco Military or Para-Mil for years on duty and in combat and never had an issue despite some rough use on my part; I much prefer the Para-Mil compression though.

    ROCK6
     
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  5. ursamajor

    ursamajor

    Oct 27, 2010
    Not all overbuilt folders are weakest at the pivot. Framelocks/liner locks are weakest at the lock.

    Then you have the Demko Triad, and to a lesser degree (blade play will develop easier) the Spyderco Powerlock. With locks like those, the blade itself will snap off, before the pivot, or lock fails. And if the blade itself breaks before any other part, then it does not matter in the slightest, if it were a folder, or a fixed blade with the same blade geometry/Steel/heat treat (even if the tang itself was enchanted by Odin himself) the knife, folder, or fixed blade would fail in the same manner, under the same stress.

    It’s why the Triad reigns supreme. It’s the lock that stands above all others, in exceeding the strength of the blade itself.
     
  6. ursamajor

    ursamajor

    Oct 27, 2010
    I agree 1000%. An overbuilt Framelock is like having the upper body of an Olympic Power Lifter, with the legs of Mr. Glass.
     
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  7. patrickguignot

    patrickguignot

    293
    Sep 10, 2015
    Woa it looks super cool and the videos about the Alpha Mark 1 are impressive. I want this model! Alas I searched the Web but it appears discontinued :(
     
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  8. hugofeynman

    hugofeynman Gold Member Gold Member

    642
    Jan 18, 2011
    There are also friction folders with a security pin to make it almost a fixed blade! Check Berest brothers Uruk Hai. It’s a beast of a folder, with its blade made in good Ol carbon steel (65G ~ 1065). That thing is really tough, but better not loose the pin!
     
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  9. midnight flyer

    midnight flyer Basic Member Basic Member

    Jan 12, 2009
    Wolverine666 said:

    People seem to really like the CS Triad lock. I need to try one out.


    Couldn't agree more. I have been a very, very slow convert to use Cold Steel products. It isn't because of the normal complaining about Thompson and his ads, his demos, etc. I don't care about those. I was uninterested because of the way they felt in my hand (too skinny, I have big mitts) and wasn't fond of their steel choices. I bought an American Lawman at the suggestion of a maker here on BF, and was really surprised. Did a few minor mods and took it to the job site to go to work. Great work knife! The lockup and its reliability/durability is certainly huge to me as I have had some locks fail and others just loosen over time.

    I recently had an incident of theft where a group of my work knives were stolen, and I am replacing a few up them. One of the replacements I chose is a CS Ultimate Hunter, and it is an incredible knife. Locks up with no movement anywhere, and no doubt the Demko lock will stay as strong as the CS Amercian Lawman I bought and have used for years. It's a large knife, but lightweight, has sculpted G10 scales, a small pocket clip that doesn't draw any attention, plenty of handle for my mitts to make it a great job site knife, very lightweight and has a beautiful satin finish on the CTS-XHP blade. Can be found for under $100.

    I thought the Demko lock was a gimmicky back lock of some sort until I bought a CS. I still love some of my other work knives and they lock up fine, but I really don't think the blades on either CS will ever loosen no matter how hard I work them.

    Robert
     
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  10. BladeScout

    BladeScout Basic Member Basic Member

    May 16, 2010
    Some are these folders are by their very nature very big. To some degree to make them 'stronger' and to some degree because people think them 'cool,' as evidenced by this thread.
    Its what some customers currently want.
    For me there is a breaking point (no point intended) in regards to size. I kind of like the Adamas but I dont own one and am not currently in the market for buying one.
    If others want to carry a folding brick like some of the more outlandish folders around, thats their money and their business.
     
  11. BladeScout

    BladeScout Basic Member Basic Member

    May 16, 2010
    Check out this one - the Battle Horse Tree Frog.
    A knife with a pin arrangement as well.
    Ive not used the Tree Frog and dont know if one tires of the 'pins on a leash' arrangement/if its design concept is a dead end or how the knife works out in years of use. I quite like it though and am tempted.
    Might make for a compact 'bushcraft' knife and/or backup knife when in the woods.
    https://www.bladehq.com/item--Battle-Horse-Knives-Tree-Frog--49462
     
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  12. Wolverine666

    Wolverine666 Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 7, 2009
    I'm the same way as far as dragging my feet to try CS. But I'm about to take the plunge.

    I also really like the look (and thick liners) of the Spyderco Mamba. I've been looking for something similar in non-flipper form.
     
  13. ROCK6

    ROCK6

    Feb 8, 2004
    Black versions still available. This is where I purchased mine:

    http://thebigknifestore.com/alpha-mark-1-black-model/

    Materials are excellent as is the design, but I wish they would do a different blade profile. I'm not complaining too much, but it's a pretty aggressive tanto style

    ROCK6
     
  14. patrickguignot

    patrickguignot

    293
    Sep 10, 2015
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  15. whp

    whp

    Apr 26, 2009
    Well put. Ive gravitated to lock backs in recent years and the Triad is now my favorite lock. Before that it was the compression lock, followed by the axis lock. I like liner locks better than frame locks.
    Cold Steel is high value.
     
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  16. patrickguignot

    patrickguignot

    293
    Sep 10, 2015
    Does anyone know when is the expiration date for the Triad Lock patent?
    I would love to see more manufacturers able to use this type of lock.
     
  17. whp

    whp

    Apr 26, 2009
    12 ounces! Yikes.
    Wonder if that s going to be twice as strong as my Recon1. For twice the price? Maybe.
     
  18. hugofeynman

    hugofeynman Gold Member Gold Member

    642
    Jan 18, 2011
    I doubt it’s twice as strong, but it’s quite a beast! With the security pin engaged, that thing it’s like a fixed blade stabbing! Look at their Facebook page!
     
  19. ursamajor

    ursamajor

    Oct 27, 2010
    On a side note, the SR1 is actually lighter than the Adamas...
     
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  20. ursamajor

    ursamajor

    Oct 27, 2010
    I’m not sure. But I predict that when it does, it will become the go to lock in the hard use/overbuilt folder industry.
     
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