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PGA#2 for 2/15 --

Discussion in 'Himalayan Imports' started by Bill Martino, Feb 15, 2002.

  1. Bill Martino

    Bill Martino

    Mar 5, 1999
    Here's a perfect 18 inch, very fast 18 ounce Sirupati by Kesar. New mark. Karda and chakma excellent. Scabbard and frog by village sarki, new leather -- excellent.

    Hard to believe but Pala's giving this excellent rig away today for $75 delivered to your door. Great buy.

    Call or email if interested.

    Attached Files:

  2. Bill Martino

    Bill Martino

    Mar 5, 1999
  3. Bill Martino

    Bill Martino

    Mar 5, 1999
    Change of mind. NOT gone.
  4. beoram


    Nov 27, 2001
    Maybe it was mentioned and I missed it - but what happened to the old tooled-leather scabbards? I must say I preferred those....

    cheers, B.
  5. Bill Martino

    Bill Martino

    Mar 5, 1999
    Finally gone -- I think! Friday is stutter day.

    We still have some old style and a few of the new style are tooled.

    You're outvoted on old vs new, Beo.
  6. beoram


    Nov 27, 2001
    Really? People prefer the new 'satin'-finish leather to the old tooled-leather? Odd....

  7. wildmanh

    wildmanh Part time Leather Bender/Sheath maker

    Jul 9, 2000
    Beoram and all thoes that are interested, I compaired a new AK scabbard to a 3+ year old AK scabbard. There are only a few major differences that I noticed:

    1. different style frogs plus, really old frog is stitched by machine in back and chris cross in front - new is sticked by in hand in back and back and forth in front. And Old style frog has gold lettering on back possibly a sig? It's mostly rubbed out so I can't really read it.

    2. really Old style scabbard has a band to keep the scabbard from sliping to far down in the frog - new does not.

    3. the loops that hold the tools on the new scabbard are only secured at one place ~ really old loops are nailed at two places (oposite each other). Also New style loops have a leather patch glued over the nail.

    That's to a post made yesterday (can't remember who made it) I noticed the leather patch on the loops. Aside from the differences #1 and #2 (Can't count 3 cause I didn't see them) I would say that the Scabbards were made by the same person. My .2 cents worth.

    --- Edit ---

    Neither of the scabbards I compaired (a 15" AK and 25" AK) had any tooling.
  8. Walosi


    Jan 10, 2001
    ...but from posts, etc., the saga goes something like this - The fellow who did the tooling on most of the scabbards won a Khukuri Brawl (as Nepal News calls them) during Dashien, and fled to India. The villager models had been coming in with scabbards covered in heavier, denser grain leather, showing superior workmanship. Pala hired the villa sarki who was responsible for these scabbards, and his brother (IIRC) will come in and do the tooling (some of which is beginning to show up lately). The better-quality leather is harder to tool using their traditional methods, and this has slowed things a bit, I imagine. We soak our leather (cowhide), before it is to be stamped or carved. The do, also, but the leather is "greener", ie, not fully cured and tanned. Only guessing, but I believe it is soaked, tooled and, still wet, stretched over the wooden liners. The tooling wouldn't survive two soakings, and final shrinkage as well as it does if soaked again, IMO. Changing to a heavier hlide has to complicate this, so some "trial and error" appears to be just now paying off.
  9. Bill Martino

    Bill Martino

    Mar 5, 1999
    You've got the sarki saga down pretty well, Wal.

    I'd say the new scabbards are getting the nod about 75% of the time.
  10. Walosi


    Jan 10, 2001
    Unlike the chape, the tooling is really attractive, even though not necessary. The untooled scabbards by the new sarki have a "form follows function" appearance - something obviously well done at first glance, with no disappointments on closer inspection. Nicely tooled, they would be knockouts. Hope the guy doing the tooling likes the pattern of "dragon on the water" - my favorite :D
  11. Bill Martino

    Bill Martino

    Mar 5, 1999
    A few new scabbards are coming in tooled -- not as pronounced on this new leather but you can still make out what the guy is trying to picture. They have been pretty busy lately and I suspect the tooling man has been pressed into service in the manufacturing process.
  12. beoram


    Nov 27, 2001
    Thanks for the info all. Walosi, now that you mention it I do vaguely remember somethign about this....

    I just prefer the tooled to the non-tooled, that's the aspect I was focussed on.

    cheers, B.
  13. Cuttin' Craig

    Cuttin' Craig

    Jun 9, 2001
    The New scabbards Vs. old:

    The thicker hide is preferable to me. The two new samples of the new scabbards I have are excellent. My only criticism is that the fit of the khuk to scabbard is noticibly looser. There are,however, two advantages to the looser fit, 1) Faster draw, and 2) less likely to cut the mouth of the scabbard while drawing.

    Tooling vs. Plain: Tooling is nicer to the eye, BUT It is hard for me to think about having Sandi put a canvas cover on a scabbard which is beautifully tooled. No hang-ups about covering a plain scabbard!

  14. Bill Martino

    Bill Martino

    Mar 5, 1999
    Thanks for more valued input.
  15. firkin


    Jan 26, 2002
    I have two scabbards with the new village sarki construction. Some observations-

    One (AK) has noticably heavier leather with a more defined grain covering the wood. Preferable to me, but tooling would be a lovely addition if it doesn't mean thinner leather.

    AK scabard had a frog that had a 1/4" gap between the laced edges and I think you'd have to cut the laces or soak it to remove it. I wonder if it was shrunk on. The other (GS) had a frog that was a little large--with laced edges touching, still kinda loose. I only had a smaller piece of leather, about the width of the belt loop which I used as a shim inserted between the belt loop and the scabbard. this works, but I'm not gluing it into the frog yet (no real need to anyway). This fix, and especially simply pushing the frog up higher until it catches tend to compress the tool compartment too much. Maybe fitting a strap inside the frog under the front and sides so it is all a double thickness will work better .

    The patches over the tack heads are a good idea. The GS scabbard has them. The glue used seems to be a kinda rubbery contact cement (?) so you may want to reglue them as I did. If you want to add these patches to loops without them, keep in mind the frog squeezing the tool compartment. Staples instead of tacks might be easier to pound down enough to get things recessed below the leather surface.

    I found both scabbards fairly loose regarding the main blade. Instead of gluing a shim over the leather in the back of the throat as suggested by Yvsa, I lifted out the front flap of leather with a piece of coat-hanger I'd given a screw-driver-like bit and bent into a hook. The back side has peened-over tack points. I glued a tapered leather shim to the wood, and after checking for fit then folded the leather back in and glued it down in small sections starting from the narrow edge side. Yvsa's method is easier, and if the peened over tack points on that side are high, probably the way to go. I think mine may look a little cleaner, and the Yvsa method is still an option. The GS scabbard had the "contact cement" under the front flap.

    If glue is to be used by the Sarkis I actually prefer the contact cement. It's easy to rework things if you want, or just reglue if you don't change anything. I would hate to see any reliance on glue in the scabbard construction. The tension of the free-floating shrunken leather over the wood is a resilient self-adapting system that tends to keep pulling everything into the proper configuration. It's a little bit alive, kinda like a wooden boat is compared to a glass boat.

    Things I've learned:

    Position of frog and presence or absence of small tools affect tightness. Remember this when checking for fit before gluing-up.

    Be careful how far back to the edge side the shim extends to prevent slicing the leather later. This is the hardest place to get the leather tucked back as well--don't make it any harder. A small piece of the flap will probably need to be trimmed to fit properly over the now smaller area. Trim slowly--gone means gone!

    Unless the leather flap tucks in really well, you will have to check the glued-in shim for fit without tucking the flap back in to avoid cutting it, not really a problem, the leather will compress a little anyway, or you can thin the shim with an X-acto knife if its too tight.

    Glue the flap down in sections starting from the edge side. A butter knife works great for pushing the leather around and holding things flat while slow-dry super-glue sets up. The last section to be glued down will probably need a slight trim to lay flat--things probably got stretched during gluing.

    Removing small tools (pretty obvious!) and making sure frog isn't squeezing things will loosen things up while working.

    Conversly, if you are doing any prying, or pushing hard to flatten things while glueing, be careful about spreading things out too much at the seams in the wood especially the spine side. The edge side is likely what your'e trying to open up anyway. You may want to hold the spine side tightly, or put a tool in the spine side loop and bind or clamp the top of the scabbard. On this point, thicker leather is a real plus, even if it is harder to tuck back in.

    Maybe a small wedge between the tool loops would open the tool compartment, allow the frog to be tighter, and tighten the fit on the main blade all at once?? Hmmmm....

    Overall, I find these two scabbards, to be of fine quality, and great design. It's just that some things like these scabbards and knives, compel me to fiddle with them to try to make them completely perfect. Kinda schizophrenic, because I'm generally not too tidy, and consider many objects to be just fine as long as they work. Maybe the difference is soul vs no soul in the object.

    Rambling discourse over.
  16. Bill Martino

    Bill Martino

    Mar 5, 1999
    There's a lot of good observations and advice in that post, Fir, and thanks.
  17. firkin


    Jan 26, 2002
    Just trying to pay back a little for all valuable information i've gotten from the good folks here.
  18. Bill Martino

    Bill Martino

    Mar 5, 1999
    It's appreciated.
  19. redvenom


    Aug 15, 2000
    Are the new sheaths as hairy as the old versions?

    I was sorta looking forward to shaving the scabbard :D

    Andrew Limsk
  20. Bill Martino

    Bill Martino

    Mar 5, 1999
    No more furry scabbards.

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