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Pictures that the media didn't want us to see. (Very Graphic)

Discussion in 'Himalayan Imports' started by Broken Arrow, Apr 3, 2004.

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  1. Broken Arrow

    Broken Arrow

    651
    Dec 1, 1999
  2. mrostov

    mrostov

    473
    Jun 24, 2003
    Not sympathizing with the Arabs, but when you're taking on merc work, you also have to understand that you're also taking the risks along with the pay. You also have to go into it understanding that it is a business that seldom allows for a second chance on mistakes and treats mistakes with the utmost of severity.

    A national soldier goes where he is ordered, a mercenary shows up willingly for pay. Blackwater is one of the three biggest American mercenary ("security") outfits working Iraq. Those guys were probably getting paid about $650 per day on a 90 day tour.

    People have traditionally had a dislike of mercenaries and mercs have traditionally been treated the harshest when they fall into the hands of the enemy. Been like that in many wars in many lands and evidently Iraq is no different.

    Death is never pretty, no matter how it happens. When you chose to live by the sword, you must also be willing to die by the sword.
     
  3. munk

    munk

    Mar 22, 2002
    It doesn't matter to me what they are called. If you think about their job- it was only to protect people who were going to make Iraq better. They were not there to attack Iraqis. The Koran forbids the murder of non-soldiers.

    Another thing- the young people in the crowd. I wonder what chance they have to be 'sane'?
    On the other hand, here in the US, we had a truck driver pulled out of his cab and blasted with a brick while people cheered.

    I don't know if it's better or worse or the same the victims in Iraq were civilians. The same, I guess.
    I don't think being 'mercs' had much to do with what happened. Nearly all the experts agree this was a deliberate match of the fiasco in Moganbishu (SIC)

    munk
     
  4. Rusty

    Rusty Moderator Moderator

    Mar 8, 1999
    DELETED - because anything I can think of to say is inappropriate.
     
  5. mrostov

    mrostov

    473
    Jun 24, 2003
    Munk, because they were mercs is why they were there. I doubt seriously if there is a McDonalds or any other American business outlet in that town.

    They were bearing arms, they were soldiers for hire.

    Fighting Muslims is seldom pretty. Traditionally in times past the Muslims would leave the wounded enemy laying and disarmed for their women to slice up and filet while still alive and screaming. This brutality was often met in kind by those they fought. For many years after the French fought in Morocco, many an older legionaire still had a tobacco pouch made from the breast of an Arab woman.

    The USA really needs to examine why they are there and is it worth it. They also have to understand a bit better exactly who they are dealing with.

    If they want to 'win', it will be bloody and they will have to be ruthless. If they are not prepared to put on the butcher's apron and actually 'win' that fight, they had best save everyone a lot of pointless grief and start packing to go home.
     
  6. firkin

    firkin

    Jan 26, 2002
    D'oh.

    see next post.
     
  7. firkin

    firkin

    Jan 26, 2002
    I have to ageree with Mr. Ostov on this one.

    You wear battle dress or a company uniform, you carry state of the art automatic weapons, and the expectation is that hostiles will treat you in a fashion differently than they would members of the armed forces sent by this nation.?

    While their deaths are as regretable as any, (one of the victims leaves a sadly widowed wife and children scant miles from me), I do not view these particular individuals deaths as any different than those who have suffered a similar fate in the employ of the armed forces of this government. These individuals were mercenaries, a privately contracted military force that happened to be hired by interests that coincide with the interests of the official miltary forces of this nation.

    I grieve their deaths the same as I do those in that chose to remain in the armed forces and chose to not become mercenaries.

    However, to try and make some big noise that these folks were "civilians" and thus subject to a special dispenstation by the enemy is absurd. I doubt that many of them themselves could make the distinction, just as the enemy Iraqis could not. In this case it is an exceedingly fine difference.

    If we are to believe what we are told, the job of the US military and that of outside "contractors" is the same.

    To expect that those who oppose the actions of the US military will treat privately hired contractors attempting to perform the same job, in the same fashion is, to be flippant, VERY DUMB. Especially when they look the same, and behave the same.

    I am glad that the US military did not recklessly take the despicable bait offered and are thinking about the response, because I think the whole set-up is a trap. It didn't really matter exactly whether the bait was "contractors" or servicemen.
     
  8. ferguson

    ferguson

    Feb 21, 2001
    I wonder if the militant muslims are hoping for an overwhelming, crushing, brutal response that would incite non-militant muslims to rally behind them.

    Steve
     
  9. DannyinJapan

    DannyinJapan

    Oct 9, 2003
    animals.
    just f***ing animals.
     
  10. munk

    munk

    Mar 22, 2002
    OK, all you objectioners- it's important for you to make the distinction these men were soldiers- for hire. That's fine.

    That is nowhere near the most important, overiding consideration, namely, that they were hired for a good cause; not to attack, not hired for rape. It does make a difference in which cause you've allowed yourself to be hired for.

    Iraq is going to have a civil war. That has nothing to do wth the US, other than we'll be caught in the middle if we don't turn it over to the Iraqies (as we will)

    As for whether or not we should be there, we will always disagree about that, but I think we can all agree that an extremely forceful response to terrorism is neccesary.

    munk
     
  11. Rusty

    Rusty Moderator Moderator

    Mar 8, 1999
    Thing that kept going through my mind and still does, is that now I understand why RemChester makes "varmint rifles" in .308 Winchester. Not proud of my response, but not apologetic for it either. As has been said, some people durned well need killing.

    Yes, I understand that it is we who are over there, not them over here. Doesn't make a difference to me. In Los Angeles during the Rodney King riots when they pullled the guy out of the truck and killed him with a brick they acted pretty much the same.

    I picked up a Savage 99A with "C" prefix serial number ( made in late 70's/early 80's ) a few days back, just to have a "hunting rifle" in the closet. Since I had a FN/FAL type in 7.62x51 I felt that it was just plain sensible to get the hunting rifle in 308 and be able to use the same ammo. Felt kind of yucky buying "sensible" instead of a fun caliber. No longer. You act like an animal ( mob ) then you can die like an animal. Act like humans - get treated like one.

    If they are doing that to bait us into a response, so be it. Give them a response way stronger than they expected.
     
  12. btice

    btice

    796
    Dec 27, 2002
    I'm with Danny....and Rusty. About a thousand things to say that I just can't because my parents taught me better.

    It's pretty apparant that the rules of "human" behavior just aren't the same everywhere. Maybe we should play by their rules? Just a thought...


    bt
     
  13. sams

    sams

    Apr 21, 2001
    Rusty, I agree with pretty much everything you write. I too have an FN, Belgium made, and a Ruger MK 11 with a mannlicher stock, light and portable in the same calibar.

    I never said this before and probably should'nt now but use the neutron bomb on them and end it for at least 200 years. There is very little radioactive fall out.
     
  14. truck

    truck

    658
    Jan 22, 2002


    When I looked at those pics all I could think of was how sweet some crosshairs would look on their foreheads. I hope the hunt is underway.
     
  15. Broken Arrow

    Broken Arrow

    651
    Dec 1, 1999
    The hunt is indeed underway. Now let's see who will get to them first...the USMC or the guys at Blackwater.

    I have trained at Blackwater's facilities and they are top notch. Some will view the contractors as "Mercenaries" , but I think that term is out dated. With the way the economy is going , good high paying jobs are waning. ANd the ones who are ex-military and in need of a job will end up working for various companies. Perhaps a new career for many.
     
  16. demon tessu

    demon tessu

    270
    Mar 26, 2004
    I say pull out all military personal, let in 5 of our most paranoid mental patients with a brief case full of theater tactical nukes and tell the Iraqi (hey there is a inane American with a nuclear bomb in your country ... good luck and goodbye
     
  17. firkin

    firkin

    Jan 26, 2002
    Fine, lets dispense with the term "mercenary" it seems to have some baggage.

    They were and behaved as a military force, or if one wishes a paramiltary presence. Somebody needs to do that job there, and the fine details don't really matter, as long as it gets done.

    If some marines were similarly treated the atrocity would be the same to me.

    But seems that somebody is trying to get some kind of extra propaganda mileage out of the fact that they were "civilians" as opposed to national military.

    These guys were not Red Cross or oilfield engineers.

    Would the same fate have awaited a vehicle full of Red Cross representatives or oilfield engineers at that place, time? Maybe. Would that have been just as bad? Yes. Worse? Not to me, it really doesn't get worse.

    That doesn't change the fact that my neck hairs stand up and my arsehole puckers when I see what looks like somebody manipulating reporting or "spinning" an occurence like this. The facts speak for themselves, if that's not "enough" something is screwed up, and here, not there. One of the facts is that they were performing a job essentially identical to that that the millitary is performing and were similarly equipped. That has been obscurred by some, as well as the results of what transpired.

    Who gets the perpetrators, I don't care as long as they are gotten.
     
  18. Sutcliffe

    Sutcliffe

    659
    Dec 5, 1998
    Carlos Hathcock and Ronnie Barrett........
     
  19. Ferrous Wheel

    Ferrous Wheel

    May 16, 2002
    The response seems unfounded, highly visible, and cruel--what youd expect from terrorism.

    "Iraq is going to have a civil war. That has nothing to do wth the US, other than we'll be caught in the middle if we don't turn it over to the Iraqies (as we will) "
    I think munk is right. Some folks are getting rights, and the old powers don't like it, they only stand to lose.

    "I wonder if the militant muslims are hoping for an overwhelming, crushing, brutal response that would incite non-militant muslims to rally behind them."

    That would make it about the third time they pi55ed of the known world. A strange cycle of violence followed by crushing opposition from the world, rinse, lather, repeat.


    All I knnow is that at the time of writing this, 8 Indiana boys ain't coming back home. Here's to the Einherjar, the glorious dead.

    Keith
     
  20. Skeletor

    Skeletor

    544
    Aug 31, 2002
    Issue bullets with pig's blood on them, and let the Iraqis know it.
     
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