How To Put an End to the F&F and +% in the exchange.

Hear! Hear!

Will do!

Ray

 

Well stated. I'm in.

 

Hear, hear!

Zieg

 

I agree. I have passed on a couple of knives because the seller says "add extra for G&S". I would prefer they raise the price and say all PayPal fees included. That's what I do.

 

This is my #1 pet peeve about knife sites. State your price and be done with it. I wish FF were not permitted and charging % was not permitted. You don't get an FF option on eBay.

 

It is not permitted. They are violating the PayPal agreement they agreed to when they signed up for the service. BF has decided that it is not their business, and leave it up to the buyers to deal with it.

I am a member of another forum where the forum rules state specifically that your sales posts can't violate the PayPal rules by asking for additional fees or charging less for some other option if also accepting PayPal.

If it is a posted rule and enforced by forum staff, then it pretty quickly becomes the cultural norm and the forum staff doesn't have to spend much time enforcing - the members will do it for them.

I personally won't make a purchase using F&F, though I usually just tack on the extra fees that the seller asks. I consider that in determining whether I think something is worth the price or not.

As long as there are enough buyers who want to save the extra few dollars, at the risk of having no recourse if the deal goes bad, then it won't matter if a few people refuse to buy from the sellers. They only need one buyer per sale.

If they made it a forum rule, publicized it, and with the penalty being deleting the for sale thread, with an infraction, plus suspending selling privileges for some period of time (increasing in duration per violation), it would take about 2-4 weeks before it would become the standard practice and unquestioned by most.

 

@NJBillK
I have messaged a number of sellers, stating almost that exact thing. Some choose to accept G&S, and/or drop the fee stipulation; some do not. Some act offended; others state they didn't know it was an issue, and they post that way because that's what they're used to seeing.
I have stated in other threads that it is up to the membership to stop this... if the buyers choose to stop going along with it, the sellers will stop out of necessity.
I would love to see it adopted as an official policy, though I don't have much hope of that happening. I think there would be little need for the moderators to search out those violations, as the membership would report them...but I also understand the time involved with checking & dealing with those reports. In the end, I think it will be up to the membership...and I'm afraid that too many buyers don't want to risk their purchases by engaging in that conversation.

 

I never understand - why do people who wouldn't steal gas, or candy etc, think it's ok to use paypal but not pay for it??

 

Cognitive dissonance and simple denial are both very powerful.

 

Great idea Bill! I've never conformed to any sales with those stipulations.

 

I never pay or sell F&F and always make an offer to pay G&S at the price quoted net. I don't think that all those quoting "net to me" prices are necessarily looking for F&F payment--they may be simply parroting what they see in other threads.

At the very least, net pricing is an annoying and lazy practice. Circumventing BF's stated policy and violating Paypal's rules by transacting F&F for goods sold and purchased is both foolish and dishonest.

Unfortunately, it's too much work for the Mods to enforce a prohibition against this practice and doing so would raise havoc with the BF Exchange, which, to me, is the best way to buy knives there is. We should all do our part to eliminate the net ask and to support the proper use of Paypal, which provides an excellent way to pay for private transactions.

 

I didn't directly link to this thread (too lazy to open another window on my phone), but I did reference it in a message to a seller this morning.

 

I'm thinking that this thread will have a stong influence on how members present their sale items.
Great idea!

 

Good idea. Personally, I've never bought into the "official" BFC position - "It's not our job to enforce PayPal's policies." Anyone who takes F&F for goods and services is a thief. BFC shouldn't permit sellers who advertise and practice their thievery to make use of the site.

 

I still would like to see an official rule change (and agree the extra work would die down quickly), but in the meantime this is a great idea.

~Chip

 

On the Exchange yesterday with a pocket full of money....great feeling!!
On the first page, ind folders, there were at least 8 threads requesting F&F or add %.
I just breeze on by. Few sales lost yesterday. Guess I should've messaged the sellers, but I did that once and wound up in an argument.
Joe

 

I would message the seller first and request to pay the fair price - whatever they're asking, no additional fees. If they refuse, I would pass. This thread is a good idea, I will link to it should I ever need to.

 

I guess if a seller is willing to defraud PayPal to make a few extra dollars off of a sale, you should still trust them completely in their descriptions of the quality and condition of the knife they are trying to unload sell.