Queen Cutlery History

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by nifbuf, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. nifbuf

    nifbuf

    21
    Apr 7, 2006
    Queen Cutlery History

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
    October 31, 2019
    Queen Cutlery Historians Launch New Website
    Queen Cutlery History is a new, comprehensive, informative resource for anyone interested in Queen
    City Cutlery Company and its successor, Queen Cutlery Company. In addition the website features
    information on the related companies, Schatt & Morgan and the Dollar Knife Company. For the first
    time, knife collectors and historians have access to a knowledge bank of knife photos and
    descriptions, historical documents, catalogs and articles related to these legendary cornerstones
    of the American cutlery industry.
    The new website, queencutleryhistory.com, is loaded with information about Queen, related companies
    and their cutlery products. Features include:
    • Color photos and descriptions of over 500 knives produced over the past 100+ years
    • A comprehensive history of Queen Cutlery written by Dr. David Krauss
    • Full color downloads of every catalog issued by Queen since 1947
    • The most complete and detailed Queen and S&M tang stamp guide ever assembled
    • Historical documents related to the companies
    • Flyers, advertisements and cutlery articles
    • Historical photos of the Schatt & Morgan and Queen factories and products
    In 2018, having produced high quality cutlery using traditional methods for 96 years, Queen Cutlery
    closed its doors for good. The curators of this website, David Clark, Linda and Fred Fisher and Bob
    Welch, had previously served in volunteer roles as the Queen Cutlery Historical Committee and are
    now joined by Carl Bradshaw. They are supported in this effort by knowledgable Queen and Schatt &
    Morgan collectors from across the USA.
    The Daniels Family, last owners of the company have graciously donated all related historical
    documents from the old Queen website. We are grateful to Jan Carter, of iknifecollector.com for
    contributing the web domain.
    queencutleryhistory.com is a work in progress. Questions, comments, document contributions and
    suggestions are encouraged.
     
    GIRLYmann, SOLEIL and colin.p like this.
  2. akguy59

    akguy59

    91
    Aug 19, 2017
    Sounds great to me.
     
  3. SVTFreak

    SVTFreak Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 8, 2011
    Nice. Can you copy and paste this in the traditional sub forum? Or may I?
     
  4. nifbuf

    nifbuf

    21
    Apr 7, 2006
     
  5. nifbuf

    nifbuf

    21
    Apr 7, 2006
    In light of SMKW’s recent issue of the new Queen Pilot Test Run knife, the editors at queencutleryhistory.com have published a short article “Is There a Future for New Queen Knives”. What’s your opinion?
     
    GIRLYmann and Jody744 like this.
  6. brownshoe

    brownshoe I support this site with my MIND

    Sep 6, 2002
    Queen's dead.

    Whatever comes in the future branded Queen or Schatt and Morgan is not made by the same workers. A cutlery is not a name, but a group of people who make knives in a particular way and are part of a tradition. Modern knives made with old tooling and patterns are not the same w/o the hands and traditions of the cutlers who made. The closest thing to Queen is GEC since it was formed out of Queen employees and GEC knives are similar but not Queens.

    Queens have a certain quality or attrtributes, a "je nais se qua", that can be seen in all their products, even contract knives. It's gone. Buy the old ones, there are certainly plenty.
     
    buckfynn and GIRLYmann like this.
  7. GIRLYmann

    GIRLYmann

    Nov 7, 2005
    what an awesome site.
    long live the beloved queen !

     
  8. nifbuf

    nifbuf

    21
    Apr 7, 2006
    brownshoe and buckfynn like this.
  9. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 20, 2005
    Have the Queen and Schatt & Morgan trademarks been sold?
     
    buckfynn likes this.
  10. brownshoe

    brownshoe I support this site with my MIND

    Sep 6, 2002
  11. nifbuf

    nifbuf

    21
    Apr 7, 2006
    Did you every wonder about the origins of Queen's distinctive Burnt Orange knife handles? The new Knife Spotlight at queencutleryhistory.com features recollections from Fred Sampson, retired master cutler. He tells us the first batch was very nearly a disaster. The featured spotlight is also available for download from the Cutlery Articles page.
     
    buckfynn likes this.
  12. nifbuf

    nifbuf

    21
    Apr 7, 2006
    The new Historical Knife Spotlight at queencutleryhistory.com features the Sleeveboard pattern knives made by Schatt & Morgan and Queen. The feature includes several photos of rare vintage knives. Check it out and feel free to share your thoughts on the comments page.
     
  13. afishhunter

    afishhunter Basic Member Basic Member

    Oct 21, 2014
    By that "logic" a cutlery company ceases to exist but in name when the last of the original line employee retires or dies.

    The original Queen Cutlery went bankrupt and shut their doors in the 1930's, during the grate depression. All Queen knives made after the name and possibly intellectual rights were sold at the bankruptcy auction, were made by different people, probably on different (but same era) machinery.
    By your definition, all Queen knives made post 1930 something, are not "real" Queen knives, no matter what company owned the name.
    Nor are the Schatt and Morgan knives made by the original Queen are a "real" Schatt and Morgan. (If memory serves, Schatt and Morgan were originally made in Germany.)

    According to your definition, if a cutlery company buys another and moves production to another location, the purchased company ceases to exist but in name. For example: Camillus bought Western, and moved production from Colorado to New York.
    What of the original Schrade? When Schrade was sold or merged with Imperial back in the 1920's or 1930's?
    Imperial after the factory burned down in the 1960's, and production was moved to Ireland and England in plants that Schrade bought? Imperial was still owned by Schrade, but the knives were made offshore, with none of the recent (let alone any of the long dead original employees) on different machines. Are the Ireland and English Imperial knives a "real" Imperial? Not according to your definition.

    Did W.R, Case cease to exist but in name, when bought by Zippo lighters?
    The workforce may have remained the same (for the most part), the machinery stayed but the upper management were all replaced, and no doubt some of the production floor/line managers were fired and replaced with new hires or transferred in from Zippo's facilities, as well.

    Does a cutlery company cease to exist but in name if/when they upgrade the machinery?
    According to your definition the company has to use the (likely old, unreliable, prone to breaking down, now) original machinery that has been out of production so long now, that no replacement part are available when (not "if") it breaks down.

    Did a cutlery company cease to exist but in name, when they upgraded from water power to first steam, then gas/diesel to run the belt system from the waterwheel days, and finally electric?
    The switch to electric eliminated all the old "traditional" belt driven machinery and belts, or that machinery was heavily modified to run on an electric motor.
     
  14. brownshoe

    brownshoe I support this site with my MIND

    Sep 6, 2002
    Your post states things I supposedly said, but didn't. I know the history of QCC and S&M.

    My feelings, not logic, tell me it's a Queen knife when I see and hold it whether it is branded Queen, QCC, Moore Maker, S&M, northwoods, etc. all made by Queen Cutlery Co. One can tell those all come from the same firm. It's the design, construction, materials, pattern, style, etc. as a package that shows it's QCC. Those people, that firm are gone. RIP. Sure, the history of cutlery shows marks and names are fluid, but I believe Queen had a continuity over many years that exists no more.

    But hey, I believe only first family Remingtons are Remingtons :)
     
  15. helobite

    helobite

    33
    Aug 26, 2008
    You ask an excellent philosophical question. It seems a desire for authenticity must be innate in humans, we have been searching for authenticity for a very long time

    The Paradox of Theseus’s Ship

    https://classicalwisdom.com/dialectics/what-makes-you-you-the-paradox-of-theseuss-ship/

    Similar to the Athenians paradox, current estimates are that 10 to 15 percent of the original wood remains, therefore, is this the Constitution or something else?

    [​IMG]

    What makes something authentic? I think authenticity is a human emotion, the knife, the ship, has no feelings and does not care about its origin. Only humans do.

    Which is why Trademarks are so valuable. Even long after the original factory, original workers are gone, the trademark will sell a product because of all the good feelings created by the products made at the original factory by the original workers.

    I talked to the clerks behind the Case knife counter at Smokey Knife Works. I believe the knives made today are the best knives ever made, particularly because of the steels. The oldest Case knives I have date back to the 1960's, and they are fine knives, but I am of the opinion that today's steels are better. I can't really tell much of a difference in fit and finish, though Case lost some of the bone colors that they used to have, and that is a shame. However I am in the minority. The clerks have heard far more customers who claim that Case knives of a certain period (generally associated with Grandfather or Dad) were the best and have never been equaled. Actually, these customers wish a return to some golden past, a past where all the uncertainty, fear, pain and sorrow have been forgotten. And since old Case knives are a part of that Golden past, of course, nothing is as good as it was then.

    What is authentic is more or less an individual issue. If it is important to the individual that Queen knives were made by Americans in a certain location, then, that is what defines Queen knives to that individual.

    It is not rationale, and it never will. Define authentic how you want.
     
    Pomsbz and afishhunter like this.
  16. nifbuf

    nifbuf

    21
    Apr 7, 2006
    The Queen Cutlery History Spotlight knives this month are the Schatt & Morgan and Queen letter opener knives. These knives featured an equal end handle as often found on pen and pocket knives. The folding blade was a 2 inch short spear but a long tapered knife opener blade extended from the opposing end.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. eveled

    eveled Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 11, 2016
    philisophy aside. Made by Americans in America is not too much to ask for.

    It’s such a shame to see these great American companies go away like this.
    Why buy a name associated with quality if you can’t make quality product?

    Camillus, Colonial, Schrade, Marbles, Polaroid, the list goes on and on. I’d rather see them go away than see their good names dragged through the dirt.
     
    Stelth likes this.
  18. USMCPOP

    USMCPOP Gold Member Gold Member

    698
    Jan 6, 2016
    I have only two Queen knives. A carver and a slicer kitchen knives, 8-10" long. Unused, older than dirt with the aged cardboard slips falling apart. Handles are jigged bone I think. Hey, they were about $4 each at a thrift store. They looked lonely so I took them home.
     
  19. willc

    willc Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 13, 2013
    The new Queen knives are being made by Americans.
    Unless Alabama has succeeded.
     
    eveled likes this.
  20. kvaughn

    kvaughn Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 28, 2005
    Do you know the name of the company? If you're saying Queens are being made by Bear in Alabama, it's been my experience with their Q.C. to be flaky at best.
     
    buckfynn likes this.

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