Slovenia Ebay Axe heads

Discussion in 'Axe, Tomahawk, & Hatchet Forum' started by cityofthesouth, Jul 22, 2016.

  1. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    Bullets all taste a bit like lead.

    It seems he was in the offer accepting mood. Definitely not a classic American made product but why not? I also have several ex-Soviet firearms and they aren’t the sveltest machines but they work well.

    $30 is half a tank of gas for me running around all day to potentially find nothing or duplicates of "junk" I already have and $13 isn't far off from what it costs to send a double bit head to someone domestically.

    I'll just do much needed yard work this weekend and not drink expensive and probably come out ahead. There are some blackberry bushes that need taming and a mole that reeeally has it coming.


    Also, I imagine "Hvala za vaš čas :)" - or "Thanks for your time :)" in any language is respectful.


    We'll see what shipping time from Eastern Europe is now - COTS, I would bet your CT head shows up first...
     
  2. cityofthesouth

    cityofthesouth

    Jan 29, 2014
    Well then, bullet bitten sounds like. Yeah the price is reasonable I think. I know my Zbirovia hatchet didn't take super long, and I've ordered stuff from Malaysia, Nepal, etc. All came in a reasonable time. My CT is coming from California apparently but at least it's not coming Fed Ex. Fed Ex for me means, plan on it taking a day or two longer than it should. It's rolling in a big brown truck as we speak.
     
  3. Square_peg

    Square_peg Basic Member Basic Member

    Feb 1, 2012
    The Romans used it as a sweetener.
     
  4. cityofthesouth

    cityofthesouth

    Jan 29, 2014
    mmmm sweet lead tea. All natural.
     
    Agent_H likes this.
  5. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    My order seems to have entered US airspace - seems timely enough coming from Slovenia?


    I missed the lead sweetener comments lol.
     
  6. cityofthesouth

    cityofthesouth

    Jan 29, 2014
    Lookin forward to your thoughts on it.
     
  7. Hacked

    Hacked

    947
    Jun 1, 2010
    Same here.
     
  8. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    So, for conversation’s sake, I don’t know anything for sure, so please add/correct/redirect if you can.
    A couple that did catch my eye for discussion were these:

    [​IMG]
    Stubai = Wilhelm Lauer man Hinterhermsdorf – They still produce axes and hatchets and seem like they are decent tools from reviews. These would be older used ones I would assume.

    Stubai history (Austria):

    http://stubai.com/index.php/en/history-stubai

    “14th cent.:
    There were already forging cites existing in Fulpmes, which produced tools for the blooming iron mining city. The oldest documented forge had the inscription: Built in 1413 by miners.

    1420:
    Around 1420, Duchess Anna gave Master Stephan, the blacksmith from Stubai, a seal that represented a hatchet and a hammer crossed in a plate, to indicate the master´s products.

    17th cent.:
    Stubai´s iron industry produced agricultural Appliances and knives by 45 blacksmiths. Sales went far beyond the countries borders (by backpack carriers).

    1680:
    Transportation of goods moved from carrying to wheeling on carter wagons. This created so-called „Stubai trading companies“.

    1742:
    Founding of the trading house Volderauer. 70 years later - takeover by Pfurtscheller family (owners until 1902).

    1897:
    Founding of the cooperative. On the advice of the Chamber of Commerce, at the same time, the technical school for iron and steel processing was founded.

    1945:
    On the 1st of December 1945, the first Annual General Meeting „in Freedom“ was held.

    1950:
    Expansion of merchandise export.

    1960:
    Modification of name to „Stubai tool industry reg.Gen.m.b.H.“

    1964:
    Agreement and regulatory Approval for the identification of all products with the advertising tag „Stubai“.

    1996:
    Construction of the most modern heat treatment factory for hardening in western Austria.

    1997:
    100th founding anniversary

    1999:
    Acquisition of Franz Krössbacher KG and establishment of the Centre of Excellence „forging - hardening – processing”.

    2003:
    Modernization of the office in the Dr.Kofler-str. 1

    2005:
    Relocation of the Stubai outletshop from “Kranerhaus” to Headquarters at the
    Dr. Kofler-str 1

    2007:
    Change of company title to “Stubai KSHB GmbH Competence Center Forging - hardening - processing“ that processes several thousand tons of steel, forges raw products for its members and does on-demand forging and supplies parts for the automotive, mechanical engineering and mining industry.

    2010:
    Reconstruction of the head office in the Dr. Kofler road in a modern, representative building - start in Nov. 2010.

    2011:
    opening ceremony in October 2011

    2012:
    Name change into “Stubai ZMV GmbH - Agency for Marketing and Sales” 01.10.2012 retroactive to January 2012. The Stubai ZMV GmbH has been given the 100% usage of the brand and the new central headquarters.”


    GARANTI(E) – Unsure – Seems that it was stamped on a lot of different stuff – like “Warranty/Warranted” from German, French, Italian, Austrian.
    [​IMG]

    K. Zellinger in Himmelberg
    [​IMG]

    *Also marked M. Sussman/Himmelberg

    [​IMG]
    Here is an auction from 2014 that mentions “An Austrian broad axe with faint mark of M SUSSMAN c1910 with 13"" edge”.
    https://www.the-saleroom.com/fr-fr/...0006/lot-3123b8c3-1dbd-4d50-9eee-a42e011beae7

    [​IMG]

    Himmelberg is a town in Austria. Austria borders Slovenia. Austria was annexed by Hitler in 1938. One of the major references to axe/tool manufacturers is the Mueller Hammerwerk that moved to Himmelberg in 1884. The other names stamped with “Himmelberg” could have been other small blacksmiths distinguishing themselves, export destination marks, maybe what they did before having a common mark. Marks could have been affected by Russian/German occupation?

    This is taken from the Muller home site under “Tradition”.
    “The Müller forge was first mentioned documentarily in 1675. Our forebear Peter Müller works in the forge “Am Paalbach”. Where the River Paalbach flows into the frothy River Mur you will find a small sooty forge on the bushy banks. The little village is Steindorf in the district of Murau in Styria. The smith is Peter Müller. He is the toolsmith, living in a time of wars, epidemics, earthquakes and the plague. And the business runs well. Clients are the farmers of the surrounding environment and travelling salesmen. The smithy lies directly on the royal post and commercial road, which runs along the River Mur in the Mur valley. It is the connecting road over the Tauern mountains to Salzburg and further north to the German trading centres. This region is connected to the wide world …”

    “In the year 1785 Martin Müller processes the meanwhile world famous cast steel of Paal into high quality hand tools. In 1823 Georg Müller relocates his forge to Turrach, due to the much better conditions. The industrialization reaches Austria. The first advances in mechanization set in in the factories. Machines begin to repress the workers … But the invention of the steam engine leads the railway to its triumphal procession, which raises the demand for steel enormously. The “Eisenwurzen” region reaches its peak and Turrach becomes the central point of iron and steel production in middle Europe. Martin Müller and his son Georg are attracted and in 1823 they relocate the Müller forge to this area. An atmosphere of change dominates and a new forge is set up. The father hands the forge over to his son Georg. The business profits by the boom of the iron trade.”

    “In the year 1884 Bartholomäus Müller finds his way to a niche in Himmelberg. The rise is followed by a fall. The steam engine makes the production independent of flowing water. New industrial centres develop in the east (Bohemia and Moravia) due to the stone coal deposits. It comes to a radical turnover in the whole iron industry of the region. War and a world economical crisis alternate. The region becomes a margin area and the tail lamp of the monarchy. Bartholomäus Müller (Georg’s son) finds his way to a niche. He acquires a blacksmith’s shop in the neighbouring town of Himmelberg. The river Tiebel doesn’t freeze over in winter but flows out of the mountain at a water temperature of 6 °C. This geological uniqueness allows the business to produce in winter also. Therefore the production no longer underlies the fluctuations and can rise considerably.”

    “In 1901 Leonhard Müller takes over the forge and distinguishes himself from the products of other smiths by registering his own trade mark. Leonhard is the grandfather of today’s business owners Seppi, Wolfgang and Leonhard. He manages the company until his death in the year 1954. Remarkably, he added the trade mark (IHS) to his tools, to distinguish himself from other forge businesses. These tools were sold at markets in the region. Business trips were made by bicycle. This way customers were acquired in places as far away as Linz.”
    http://www.mueller-hammerwerk.at/en/tradition.html

    Just guessing but I think they might be a mix of older used axes and newer ones that might be earlier renditions of existing makers and maybe long gone ones produced in the area as well as older German makers. Some may be imports to there as well. Imports to me and you here in the US are different that imports to Slovenia though.
    So, many of the marks are obscured and it is hard to make them out but there are some that have weight marks placed kind of where Mueller would have for example.


    This is the one I ordered that arrived last night:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    It weight 1lb 11.5oz. It seems well made. I can’t find anything on the maker’s markings but 1964, to me, gives a date range to a degree. It doesn’t look like the others listed. It looks Russian to me but that is based solely off of other internet sources and previously posted materials. It could be Finnish, Austrian, or Russian – without something on the stamp I can’t say. It looks and smells like Russian Block surplus to me – at least what I think of from SKS’ and Bulgarian/Yugo firearms (Cosmoline). It also looks like there was something lightly stamped on the reverse side that may have been worn off or “removed”. I will clean it up and with a wheel and see if there is anything on there.

    Some resources (for your axe reading pleasure) that I was perusing while trying to figure this out:
    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1348572-Russian-Axe-Toporsib
    http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2015/09/the-taiga-axe-russian-perspective-on.html

    It also could be Finnish made for all I know as Finland was occupied by Russia and Billnäs, Kellokoski-Mariefors and Strömfors could have shipped them east:
    [​IMG]
    “Image 4. The Forge at Strömfors also made axes but they were not able to compete with Billnäs or even Kellokoski-Mariefors. The models they made were identical with the other forges, exept for the model 2 which was only made by Strömfors and was modeled after the Viborg style axe.The models 15, 11 and 9 are considered "American" axes”

    http://northernwildernesskills.blogspot.com/2013/08/all-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about.html

    Blog post about “Russian” axe/handling
    http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/5392950/Re:_Making_axe_handles

    Bushcraftusa thread of one reminiscent of the shape:
    http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/threads/new-to-me-russian-axe-pics-and-first-trial.84130/

    From earlier in post:
    [​IMG]


    Here is a video that was posted here previously (if you haven’t seen it, it’s pretty cool):
    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/919485-Happy-People-A-year-in-Taiga

    Happy People: A Year in the Taiga
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbhPIK-oBvA

    Smaller Taiga axe from video:

    [​IMG]

    Larger version from video:

    [​IMG]




    Some actual German axes in there? I would think so.
    Some “rare” ones? – defined by maker or availability now a days – possibly.
    Finnish made axes during Russian occupation sent around – ?.
    Austrian axes in there – Definitely.
    Original Russian –?

    On a side note – there are frequently heads being sold as unmarked “Hudson Bay” patterns that look an awful lot like some of the unmarked hatchets that that offered from the same vendor.

    Great, now I want a traditional Finnish axe to mess around with...
     
    rjdankert likes this.
  9. Hacked

    Hacked

    947
    Jun 1, 2010
    Good to know that those axes seem to be good quality, and thanks for the wealth of information.

    The Finnish axes seem to be pretty hard to come by these days. I've seen a couple of folks do restorations on them. Definitely an interesting axe pattern. Not sure if you've seen it already but here is a good video of an old craftsman making and fitting a handle to a Finnish axe.

    [video]https://youtu.be/nEZ0a3RLlEM[/video]
     
  10. cityofthesouth

    cityofthesouth

    Jan 29, 2014
    Are these the ones you ordered? Looks like they are well marked ... and well documented too! I think maybe European history tends to be that way though.
     
  11. Square_peg

    Square_peg Basic Member Basic Member

    Feb 1, 2012
    I have a Stubai hewing hatchet and it's quite good.
     
    Agent_H likes this.
  12. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    COTS, I only ordered the one but I screen shot the others and hosted the pics so I wasn't advertising for him - just thought it wise to avoid breaching our TOS :). There are others marked with initials, seals, and "crosses" as well.


    Square_peg, I saw that in one of your hewing threads a while back- the one with the taped handle- it looks like a machine.


    So, there is a wood supplier that has 3"x3"x36" Ash turning blanks here - would a carefully chosen one of those be "handle worthy"?


    Of course it won't be seasoned, hand-riven hickory but for a hatchet or maybe a small Finnish axe...?
     
  13. Square_peg

    Square_peg Basic Member Basic Member

    Feb 1, 2012
    It would make a decent straight haft.
     
  14. cityofthesouth

    cityofthesouth

    Jan 29, 2014
    Are you thinking 3" isn't enough for a curved handle or are you just not keen on the Ash for curves?
     
  15. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    Just thinking that I have a lot of handles out in my shop area here and none fit the Euro square eyes. Never had a need for them until now.

    Not keen to spend near as much on a handle I can't pick out myself as I did on the Slovak Wonder hatchet. Also, I have been itching to make my own but have yet to come across raw wood suitable to do so.

    I'm not the sharpest axe in the stack but I bet if I had a piece of Ash that has enough mass to start with I can make it happen - probably need to ask questions along the way...

    Also, I'm going to have need for making a handle that you can't buy a pre-made one for - at least as far as I know and this might be a way to do it, or at least try.
     
  16. Steve Tall

    Steve Tall

    Aug 28, 2010
    There's a lot of Oregon Ash growing at your location (Oregon).
    Just saying.
     
  17. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    Absolutely.

    I've seen it more often on the coast. I'll be heading back there next month and take a look.

    I have family and several friends there that have wooded property - might be that easy.

    Still might check out the turning blocks for $11 worth of entertainment/experiment.
     
  18. Square_peg

    Square_peg Basic Member Basic Member

    Feb 1, 2012
    I was only thinking of having enough wood for the curves. I wouldn't think twice about using a good piece of ash for an axe handle. It's plenty good enough.
     
    Agent_H likes this.
  19. cityofthesouth

    cityofthesouth

    Jan 29, 2014
    OK I figured. But you know, I am always collecting opinions on this subject.

    Agent H, I say go for it.
     
    Agent_H likes this.
  20. ipt

    ipt

    60
    May 14, 2013
    Ну!
    Вот так делается!
    ;*)
    Молодец!

    [video=youtube;17Y37R3JqLo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17Y37R3JqLo&index=30&list=PLgqUA3IXq4qYiUpf4jo0wvdQjSxLeI1AN[/video]
     
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