Slovenia Ebay Axe heads

Discussion in 'Axe, Tomahawk, & Hatchet Forum' started by cityofthesouth, Jul 22, 2016.

  1. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    1. Appreciate you posting the video IPT!:thumbup:

    2. I think you posted something positive, maybe even funny, but my Russian is bad - Sorry about Google translate baby talk.

    3. вы знаете, следы на этом топор ?

    [​IMG]

    Большое спасибо!/ Thank you very much!
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  2. ipt

    ipt

    60
    May 14, 2013
    I already show you that this is quality russian carpenter axe.
    As I can see it is made 1964.
    80 is type of steel- russians call it "инструментальная сталь У8"
    The other number is number of the standart according to which it was made.
    It is an exellent axe.

    http://knifeclub.com.ua/forum/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=33713&start=75
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2016
  3. Square_peg

    Square_peg Basic Member Basic Member

    Feb 1, 2012
    I don't understand the language but that is an excellent video! I'm impressed by all the tooling used in the operation.
     
  4. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    I appreciate your help. So, I have two problems:

    1. My Russian/Cyrillic is bad so my searches are limited,
    2. I don’t understand steel composition/process well enough to comment – there are guys here that could translate for a comparison…

    When I search your steel designation and have Google translate I get this:

    http://www.splav-kharkov.com/mat_start.php?name_id=135
    http://metallicheckiy-portal.ru/marki_metallov/sti/U8


    That steel designation is “tool steel”. Maybe someone who knows about composition and process could provide input but I’ll take it as good.



    I drove into town this morning to look at the Ash turning blocks that were advertised. There was one to “choose” from and it was on sale – 18.xx – I’d have to find the receipt.

    Now, I’m thinking waste not want not with the block. I think I can designate one end to the Russian axe with necessary excess for an extended neck and the other end to a Euro sized eye for a Made in West Germany head. Might even be a 4lb. sledge hammer on the other side.

    The head weighs 1lb 11oz. I am used to American handles. Longer eye with some curve behind it or straighter?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Guess I need examples of effective handle shapes for hanging this one.

    *Realized I rotated the block out of grain alignment for that last picture.

    18" - 46cm sound right?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  5. Square_peg

    Square_peg Basic Member Basic Member

    Feb 1, 2012
    I love getting a good piece of ash. :D
     
  6. Steve Tall

    Steve Tall

    Aug 28, 2010
  7. jake pogg

    jake pogg

    Dec 20, 2015
    Agent H,hi.I can't follow the links you've provided(my internet speed+the funk factor often inseparable from russian-related sources).

    If you're wondering about this specific alloy,У7(as well as У8,У10,У10А,У12,and on and on),then it's just a "simple" Carbon steel,with 70+%C,analogous to AISI 1070,1075,1084,et c.
    The russian code У stands for Углерод,which is Carbon;if other alloying elements were present they'd also be indicated by their letters;so,U7= AISI 10xx series alloys.

    The handle on these axes was most commonly birch(thus the volume inside the eye,it developed like that initially because there's not too much BUT birch available,in the more northern,i.e. forested,regions).
    The haft was often made out of the jug-butt part,using the beginning of the root flare...(meself,i'm fairly cynical of the practicality of this,as i find the grain in the root be coarser,and the wood on the softer side,but arguing with "traditionalists" simply ain't worth it....).

    Because these people had access to not much of anything but birch,they developed this loyalty to it,and began justifying it by saying it's the Only Way(of course).And the softness of birch,it's low density,began to be worshipped culturally(i'm speaking Very generally here)as an ultimate handling wood for it's shock-absorbtion(true to an extent,stands to reason...).

    The shape of the "traditional" haft always held little aesthetic appeal to me personally,but here's a resource where you can see many examples of such,
    Here's (a rare)one that is more or less appealing:http://rusknife.com/topic/13397-есть-железо-нет-дерева/page-12#entry629753, the post # 332

    And here is a long thread on this type made by the Zlatoust factory,one of the oldest,most well-known makers:http://rusknife.com/topic/12708-топоры-зик-он-же-згз-советского-периода/page-19#entry630230

    Again,i'm not a great fan of these axes,and lack the insight(tried and failed to id your specific stamp,it could be Zlatoust,not sure...ЗиК stands for the abbreviation of Zlatoust instruments Factory).

    But hope all that helps in your search....
     
  8. jake pogg

    jake pogg

    Dec 20, 2015
    That's correct,Steve,thanks.Yep,simple eutectoid steel,anything with 7+% C and not much else.More rarely,these axes were forged out of the equivalent of AISI 5160,(Chrome-based "spring"-steel,commonly used in leaf-springs in vehicles,in Russia 65Г.

    In the days of USSR all(and i mean ALL)objects manufactured,their processes,et c.,were strictly dictated by a set of government-developed and enforced specs,similar to the "mil-spec" concept.They were called ГОСТ standards.Let me see if i can find it for these alloys,it should be fairly easy...
     
  9. Square_peg

    Square_peg Basic Member Basic Member

    Feb 1, 2012
    Really good stuff there, Jake. Thanks!
     
  10. jake pogg

    jake pogg

    Dec 20, 2015
  11. jake pogg

    jake pogg

    Dec 20, 2015
    Square-peg,thanks,and i might as well complete this ifo by saying this:Those axes(there's about 4-5 types,all designated by a letter/type+number/size,like A2 et.c)are not my favorite,but they did exist for a long time,and peopkle Did accomplish a lot with them.

    Here's a video of one of the characters who believes that these axes are the Ultimate in woodworking axe,(i've corresponded with this gentleman,and both his conviction and his skill are formidable!:):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHRTjpEnObI

    The video does give one an idea of how one works with such a tool,it's about as representative as i could think of.

    And it even is possible,as theorised by this craftsman and some others,that the specifics of russian log-building are related closely to the evolution of this type of an axe.
     
  12. jblyttle

    jblyttle

    Sep 3, 2014
    They may not be thick enough for some applications, but take a look at ash wheelbarrow replacement handles. I'd guess they are 1.75" thick by 60" long and are typically very straight grained. No good for curved axes, but maybe great for hatchets. I have used similar shovel handles to get a few hammer handles out of. Great wood, easy to choose the length section that you want, and always perfect grain orientation.

    As a matter of fact, I have one piece left, I will try to use it for my next larger hammer.
     
  13. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    Jake, thank you for all of that information and your time as well. History, use, composition, resources - all of this is great!

    I probably don't need another handled axe for anything but the novelty (to me at least) and the learning process is what I'm finding rewarding. For example, I have not made a finished axe handle from raw wood or in this case a nice blank that is already cut and dried for me. I'm also getting a kick out of the Russian forums - some of the banter there sure seems like what goes on here in this forum.


    Even with Chrome's rough translation I see that the "shelf" on the handle behind the eye is considered traditional. Given that they were using birch and I got hold of something harder it probably isn't necessary. I like the basic shape of the one from the forum page you linked here for us.

    [​IMG]


    Some of this is very much "Old Hat" for some (such as our European members) but your guys' input is very much helping. Appreciate it!

    JB - you don't have a sickle to go with that hammer, do you?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  14. Square_peg

    Square_peg Basic Member Basic Member

    Feb 1, 2012
    Do you know what that T-beam is used for?
     
  15. rjdankert

    rjdankert

    Mar 10, 2011
    Not sure what is meant by the grain alignment in the block. With that block it seems to me that the grain alignment (if you are concerned about it in relation to the head) isn't particularly important until you lay out the handle blank.

    Anyway, I don't see why that block will not make an excellent handle. Looking forward to seeing the finished product. :thumbup:

    Bob
     
  16. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    I was wondering as well. The video title translates as "Chopping ax . Ceiling Matica"

    “Matica” seems to refer to a governing body established in 1860’s. I wonder if it might also be used as a national identifier like “Slovak, Slovenian or maybe traditional” in this sense.

    Traditional Slavic style ceiling beam?

    Word play guessing on my part.
     
  17. jake pogg

    jake pogg

    Dec 20, 2015
    In a traditional Russian peasant log-cabin,over the centuries,things have become very standardised,even codified,and aquired a cultural/spiritual importance...

    This particular timber,called "matitsa"("mother-beam":) runs transversely,the main tie-log,in essence,and bears the load of the smaller loft-support timbers.
    It also is integrated into the masonry of the big,brick hearth(which needs it's support).
    That resulting grid of timbers,looking at it from underneath,delineates(used to,of course) the different parts of the house,"men's" and "women's" quarters,a bunch more culturally important minutiae....Don't get me started now...:)

    A tie-log,plainly speaking!:)...The above is the reason why Andrey is approaching the project with such seriousness and industry;a crazy traditionalist,he's attempting to underscore the spiritual importance of the old methods,to justify such difficult to reconcile,nowadays,concepts as utility and the producing the timbers by hand-hewing...
     
  18. Square_peg

    Square_peg Basic Member Basic Member

    Feb 1, 2012
    You have to admire the man's work effort. He took a lot of swings to make that.
     
  19. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    A "Mother Board" - I won't get started either lol.
    The cultural insight is terrific Jake, Thank you.

    Me too Bob. I haven’t done it before. Here is what I am thinking. It seems like many of the handles are more square coming out then have some have curves, some really subtle, and some really none at all.
    This is what I sketched out using one of my favorite handles as a template then modifying the tongue and grip angle to keep my hand in line with the head.

    [​IMG]

    Too much? The head is propped up on my wallet so it will get on there straight eventually.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
    rjdankert likes this.

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