Slovenia Ebay Axe heads

Discussion in 'Axe, Tomahawk, & Hatchet Forum' started by cityofthesouth, Jul 22, 2016.

  1. jake pogg

    jake pogg

    Dec 20, 2015
    Agent_H,thank you for all these interesting,and very valid,thoughts and observations.

    An easy,(and possibly constructive for our purposes here) way to think of Karelia and it's environs as just a general Easterly direction from Scandinavia proper,along the coast of those cold northerly seas...It was settled long ago by a number of the predominantly Ugric people(who came there from across the Ural range(the dividing line between Europe and Asia),from Western Siberia...

    It was always the land where there was MUCH Forests(for charcoal),and good,clean,plentiful Limonite et c. ores(so-called "bog-ores"),and precious little to eat!:)...The weather is severe,the ground swampy and poor,not an Agrarian paradise....
    So,people practiced Ironwork,all other crafts that stem from the ability to forge iron and steel tools,and got very skilled at Trade,as well.(Selling their iron wares far and wide,much of it pattern-welded,and all-made with incredible skill and finesse).
    It was kinda/sorta known as the Novgorod Rus(as opposed to the Kievan Rus,what is now Ukraine,a lush,warm,agrarian country,based on agricultural commune in it's social structure).
    All that ended in the 16th c.,when Ivan the Terrible,the first Putin in a long pestiferous plague of them,has simply annexed the entire joint to the other,already fairly dysfunctional parts,organising it all under the Moscow hegemony,so pretty much the modern RF.(Massacring most craftsmen,naturally,in the process:)...

    Whomsoever has actually survived there must've been tough indeed...So the monastery complex at Kizhi is really quite a testament to the human spirit....Thanks for posting that photo(i've a h... of a time with images,with my satellite connection).
    Here's an interesting link:http://kizhi.karelia.ru/crafts/izgotovlenie-lemeha
    It's the PR project that the Museum indulges in,re-enacting the traditional trades.(some demonstrations are higher quality than others.alas,the UNESCO funds are not a total cure for the local,cultural ills...all's not exactly well,at the museum...but it's neither here nor there...).

    Earnest DuBois is a cool cat!:)Would be fun if he were to join us here,thanks for bringing That up as well...

    I've got to run,but the very best of luck with your hafting endeavor,and a quick quote from the inimitable Oscar Wilde:"Work is the curse of the drinking class!":)
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2016
  2. Square_peg

    Square_peg Basic Member Basic Member

    Feb 1, 2012
    Don Wagstaff - aka Ernest Dubois, is knowledgeable about both the history and use of these tools. He's an ex-Pat American living in France (?) and applying his very refined skills at anything having to do with hand-working wood.
     
  3. littleknife

    littleknife

    Nov 29, 2000
  4. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013

    Yeah, it would be nice if he was around to add his input. I can understand though.

    Jake Pogg
    – This is probably redundant but this is the area that we talking about, right? I really think this is neat. All I really know are American axes. This is like history and geography told through axes lol.
    [​IMG]

    Here are some of the videos from Jake’s link to Karelian wood building:

    Plowshare Production (Karelia)
    [video=youtube;E03kMKbBkV8]

    Timber production (Karelia)


    Making tёsa (Karelia)
    [

    Russian Wooden House – Found here in the forums. Posted by Dubois I think.
    [video]

    Russian Axe work – Making a Boat. Found this one in earlier posts here.
    [video=youtube;oP7ckP_GpbA]

    Bob, I think this the video from your screenshots? The one with the hotshot flipping around for hewing? (Finland)
    [video=youtube;iGwNQM5cGU0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGwNQM5cGU0[/video]

    Here is how the Topor axe turned out:

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    The edge probably still needs some work. It does cut pine kindling and puts points on stakes. It’s more impressive than my current skills… Oh, it doesn’t like dry Juniper - but nothing really does I am finding.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
    rjdankert likes this.
  5. jake pogg

    jake pogg

    Dec 20, 2015
    Agent _H:".... is the area that we talking about, right? ".

    Absolutely right,and thank you for posting that map.

    "...This is like history and geography told through axes lol.".

    :)...And why not?:)....If one looks up the term "Iron Age",one learns that it's a relative term that the Archaeologists came up with to designate a period when a specific culture got into the working of iron.There are several other culturally important events that seem to happen right after people start forging iron,the one that i thought was particularly cute was Literacy!:)

    An axe is a (deceptively:)simple shape to gorge,the angle of the bevels is so natural,so instinctive...(it has to do with the radius of the movement of our forearms relative the anvil...)...There's this cool old video of a Chimpanzee using a stick to hammer nuts....My instant thought was:"There,but for the grace of God,go I..."(when at my forge,where i spend a lot of time...):)...Well,THAT's the angle!:)

    An axe allowed people to build structures that Lasted(the main point in that Finnish gent's finishing technique-Preservation).

    A more complex set of axes(but still simplistic in essence),developed sometime during the Roman and up toward the Viking ages has allowed and fascilitated all the shipbuilding,which in turn has helped the spread of cultures and their crafts so far and wide,spreading the Christianity far north into the Scandinavia,transforming their Stave-building into the early Cathedral(Stavkirke) style,eventually giving the rise to the vitally important Gothic style of architecture...

    Later,in the early Industrial Age,the HT of steel has given people the hardened surfaces for the wear resistance of gears,the precision of a metal lathe,thus the steam-turbine,and therefore-electricity....
    And,in not too distant future,all that has become the Information Age,with it's electronics,and here we are,on the Internet,and all(arguably)thanks to an Axe!:)

    (but all that progress was a bit too fast for me,i'm still kinda trying to catch up,(my chimpanzee motion does not work as well on the keyboard as it does on the anvil...)so thanks a lot for all your help with the links and such!:)

    And,GREAT job on that Topor!
     
  6. cityofthesouth

    cityofthesouth

    Jan 29, 2014
    The finished product looks great.
     
  7. rjdankert

    rjdankert

    Mar 10, 2011
    :cool:, Thanks

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    Bob
     
    Agent_H likes this.
  8. rjdankert

    rjdankert

    Mar 10, 2011
    :thumbup:

    Bob
     
  9. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    I wasn't sure where to put this. Being Czech and talking about axes this seems along the same lines given the German, Slovenian, Eastern Bloc connection.

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    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  10. littleknife

    littleknife

    Nov 29, 2000
    Thanks, Agent_H, this is pretty interesting!
    The Czech pattern (Ceska) looks like an Estern woodland tomahawk.
    The hardwood pattern (Page 88, Fig. 104, top, 4th from the left) has a quite narrow and extremely thick bit.
    The ‘American’ pattern has not much more poll than the rest of the axes.
     
    Agent_H likes this.
  11. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    Littleknife, glad you find it interesting!

    This is my Google-fueled attempt at Czech:

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    Obr. (Giant/full-size). 105. Několik seker (various axes)

    1. Bavoroská (Bavarian pattern)

    2. jihoněmecká (South German)

    3. Berlinská (Beliner)

    4. Jednotná ke káceni a odvětvovaní (Felling and Branching)

    *Zlata* – Gold – I assume that is the quality reference with the 3 mushroom deal on them.

    *Several years ago I worked with a young lady named “Zlata” who was Eastern European – Now I know what her folks were thinking lol.

    Also, if anyone else speaks/reads Czech – please step in. :thumbsup:
     
  12. littleknife

    littleknife

    Nov 29, 2000

    I don’t speak Czech, but understand some common Slavic words.

    Obr. is abbreviation of ‘obraz’, which is ‘figure’ That is why I think you made a typo labeling 'Fig. 104. Axes’ as ‘Giant Axes’.

    ‘štípací’ means ‘splitter’.

    The ‘zlata’ ‘gold’ likely refers to the brand name of the axes shown in Fig. 5:
    The labels are reading “Goldaxt” which means ‘gold axe’ in German.
    German was widely used in Bohemia since the Middle Ages, and up to the end of WWI the Czech state was part of the Hapsburg Austro-Hungarian Empire.
    So the brand’s German name does not necessarily mean that the brand was not a Czech one.

    The “triple mushroom” sign is in Fig. 106 is called quality/grade sign/mark.

    Beyond that, I would welcome a translation too, since it’s all Czech to me. ;)
     
    Agent_H likes this.
  13. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    "It's all Czech to me"

    That is great!:thumbsup:
     
  14. Square_peg

    Square_peg Basic Member Basic Member

    Feb 1, 2012
    We've seen that 3 mushroom triangle symbol here before.
     
  15. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    [​IMG]

    I couldn't find the quote here on the forums but this is what I remember - it seemed to cross makers as well.
     
    Square_peg likes this.
  16. garry3

    garry3

    Sep 11, 2012
    I have posted this old head before on this form. I think there is more interest in the old European axes now though and more knowledge here about them also. I think I was told it was from eastern Europe. Anyone tell me more ?[​IMG]
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  17. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    That is an interesting axe head Garry. :thumbsup:

    It kind of makes me think Scandinavian maybe even Norwegian at first glance, kind of "Mustad" in shape:

    [​IMG]
    http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/old-mustad-coming-in-mail.879595/


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    But the "spine" in front of the eye kind of makes me think further East - maybe a transition of styles? Are both sides of the bit sharpened?

    Where is Jake Pogg?

    I'd be curious to see any leads on it as well.
     
    garry3 likes this.
  18. Agent_H

    Agent_H

    Aug 21, 2013
    What shape is the eye?
     
  19. littleknife

    littleknife

    Nov 29, 2000
    Garry3, this appears to be a Russian axe.
    The ‘spine’ in front of the eye (the Russians call it “beard” or “little beard”) is typical for most Russian axes, and while it was found in Medieval Scandinavian axes too (from where most Russian patterns originate from), it survived the longest in Russia, and became almost a signature feature of the Russian patterns.
    The stamped letters seem to be Cyrillic rather than Latin ones. It is more like a guess, due to the pitting, but it appears that the first letter is a Cyrillic “G.”, followed by either Cyrillic “N” or “P”.

    Jake Pogg, help please!
     
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  20. garry3

    garry3

    Sep 11, 2012
    Both sides of bit are sharpened.
    [​IMG]
     

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