Swords made in s30v or other high quality steels?

Discussion in 'Sword Discussion' started by James0723, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. senoBDEC


    Mar 13, 2005
    Then again, "Tinker" Pearce and "Angus" Trim routinely (probably still do) test their swords by hacking/cutting into oil barrels.

    Hm. 5160 works darn well - I know Kris Cutlery has used it for quite some time (of the prod. companies).
  2. benjammin


    Aug 23, 2005
    I have yet to see any steel compare to the performance characteristics of INFI. Can anyone here identify an alloy that will meet or exceed it on a comprehensive level?
  3. chuckinohio


    Feb 14, 2009
    How about 1060?

    Scroll down and watch the videos, I have to say that they impressed me enough to buy from them.

  4. Triton

    Triton Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    I don't know how well does it flex?
  5. chuckinohio


    Feb 14, 2009
    Watching the destructive test videos out on the net, INFI displays some very impressive properties.
    The material bends without breaking or tearing, and up to about 35 degrees or so returns to center pretty reliably from what I have seen.
    The problem with INFI though, is that it is a Busse proprietary material due to the super secret heat treat, and is not commercially available. Therefore you are at the mercy of Busse as to what is available.

    Where you can shop around several reputable smiths and manufacturers using carbon steel and have many different designs and styles of weapon to choose from, with INFI you are very limited.

    Included in that very limited category also would be the SR-101, and SR-77 that Scrapyard and Swamp Rat use. As long as you are in the market for a pseudo katana type of blade, you are in business. If you have your eye set on a hand and a half, or an arming sword, then you are SOL.

  6. benjammin


    Aug 23, 2005
    Well, not entirely. Jerry Busse is a businessman, and for the right price, I am certain his custom shop would put together whatever blade design you'd be willing to pay for, using his proprietary alloy and processes. It might not be economical or quick turnaround, but it can be done.

    But off the shelf, your choices are limited, and even then you can expect to wait a while.

    As for propriety, I am sure many good sword smiths have secrets and/or private processes that they don't openly divulge to their customers. Busse is not alone in having a secret recipe, just that they've managed to come up with an alloy/process that is not readily imitable by others. That does make them more exclusive than most. Not being able to replicate what they do does put them in a bit of a different category.

    I believe SR-101 and SR-77 are common metals (I remember hearing that SR-101 is just 1095 with a differential temper, and SR-77 is another common steel with a similar heat treatment). INFI is a proprietary alloy that Busse came up with, in addition to a proprietary heat treatment, making it a bit more exclusive.

    I'd have to inquire what it would cost for their custom shop to make a hand and a half. I am certain it won't be cheap. Probably cost at least a few cases of blue label and some well-rolled cubans, knowing Jerry.
  7. tedwca


    Dec 10, 2005
    SR-101 is 52-100 with a special heat treat and SR-77 is S-7 with a special heat treat per Busse comments.
  8. AfterTFD


    Oct 28, 2007
    It is a superb steel for swords and choppers such as khuks. That's why it's commonly used for such applications.

    That would be problematic from a maker's standpoint. First of all working with the stuff takes a lot of time (labor is expensive in the US), it's either expensive or flat out impossible (probably the later considering Crucible's current state) to get CPM 3V in the size you would need to waterjet out sword blanks, working with the stuff is very expensive machine/belt-wise especially when making something as large as a sword, and if you made enough of them that they wouldn't be crazy expensive for the customer you would still have a lot of very expensive swords sitting around without much of a market for them. Makers just can't afford to have thousands of dollars tied up in materials or inventory on a whim.

    All that being said a CPM 3V sword would totally kick ass. [​IMG]
  9. gunfiter


    Apr 17, 2006
    +1 for Angus Trim swords, try christianfletcher.com. He uses 5160 in a stock removal/ milling process.
  10. chuckinohio


    Feb 14, 2009
    My comments on SR-101 and SR-77 being proprietary or exclusive were based on Scrapyard and The Swamp using a super secret special heat treating procedure. I am not able to comment on whether it is able to be replicated elsewhere, as my metal fu is weak in that area:D Perhaps it's properties can be attained by another competent smith.

    My SOL comment was erroneous, because as pointed out Jerry is just whacky enough to make someone a hand and a half out of INFI, and I would further speculate that the Cubans had better still have virgin sweat on em:eek:

  11. cotdt


    Oct 2, 2006
    My katana in 5160 performs amazing when I chop down trees with it but the hamon lines are barely visible. 1084 is a bit better because it has more prominant contrast in the hamon lines. I think 5160 is tougher but you don't need that much toughness in swords. 5160 rusts easily though.

    S30V doesn't seem all that brittle to me. You can use a sandwich with 420J and S30V in the middle.
  12. JCaswell


    Mar 12, 2006
    Something to remember about swords .... A sword is not just a long knife.
    A lot of 'super tough' swords out there are actually terrible, ill-handling things.
    Assuming you're using a reasonably simple carbon steel that is HT correctly, the single greatest consideration is geometry.
    That the sword is shaped properly is hugely important if you want a real weapon and not some sword-shaped abomination. A lot of guys make and sell swords that look about right, and boast good steel and HT. These may even cut OK, but that isn't enough. A sword is a deft weapon. It must be agile enough to get to a similarly armed, skilled opponent without any undue expenditure from excessive inertia. A real typical European broadsword, for instance, is thin, flexible and very fast. Creating a structure that is both light and very strong is the central challenge of the real swordmaker. IMO, more so than whether the maker used 5160 or 1086.
    (I would agree with the others that S30V is not nearly the best choice for a functioning sword. The simpler carbon steels are just so well suited for use in swords.)
  13. Triton

    Triton Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    I nominate this post for post of the week on the sword forum. Especially the first sentence. This is something that a whole lot of folks in the industry both manufacturers and consumers don't seem to grasp.
  14. Kohai999

    Kohai999 Second Degree Cutter Platinum Member

    Jul 15, 2003
    I live in your neck of the woods.

    PM me when you have time, I would like to see what trees you chop down with your katana, what katana you use to do this, and if you are full of crap or not.

    Best Regards,

    STeven Garsson,
    Nidan, Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iai Heiho, JKI
  15. Lycosa


    Aug 24, 2007
    Is the dewd's Kat a Rat Waki?? :D
  16. wnease


    Apr 22, 2004
    ok i haven't been here for a while and a few people have commented on my posts...

    Price really isn't an object for spacecraft so if laminated steels were better than mono I think we'd see them...I'll put up my blades for fair test comparison against folded blades anytime and if they are better I'll have to admit it.

    The Kevlar lamination on a blade does not substantially increase toughness in the conventional sense (and for those of you who are curious it is I who laminate cloth to blades), but neither does putting soft steel on a blade. The edge is the thinnest part of a blade, takes the most abuse, is subject to the most shock, so whatever the edge is made of the back can be made of too. Making the back or sides weaker does little to protect the hard edge except for perhaps altering the harmonics. I believe it may hold broken hard sections together after failure, like a paper label holds a broken bottle together, or laminated glass holds together your windshield after failure, but such a blade will either be very heavy or lack lateral stiffness (steel gets weaker as hardness drops, blade gets floppy...). Kevlar holds a blade together pretty well I would imagine, though none of my sword blades has failed yet.

    I take on propane bottles, trucks, trees, 2 by 4s (Lycosa has seen some cool pics), mountains of gritty 3 and 4 inch used rope, roadkills, and maybe my swords don't handle wonderfully, but they cut. On the other hand, maybe some of them do handle wonderfully!
  17. Lycosa


    Aug 24, 2007
    They CUT!!
    Lycosa will order a Nease Katana this fall. ;)
  18. SShepherd


    Nov 23, 2003
  19. chuckinohio


    Feb 14, 2009
    Thanks for the explanation of your earlier post, sorry for pokin fun at ya:eek:

  20. lexdagreendragon


    Jan 12, 2021
    question which would be best for a 48 inch over all sword fof 5160 or D2? please help

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