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the khukuri in combat

Discussion in 'Himalayan Imports' started by DannyinJapan, Feb 8, 2004.

  1. Kohei

    Kohei

    87
    Jan 23, 2004
    Hello Spiral,

    Ninja were originally called Shinobi-no-jutsu amongst other names. Ninja today often associate the word "budo" with their art, but this is incorrect. It is a bugei/bujutsu art.

    There were "ninja like" activities before ninjutsu became formalised such as Prince Yamoto, etc but the true concepts of ninjutsu originate from China many years before they were "officially" used in Japan. Ninjas do come from Japan, but their "concepts" originate from China.

    There were 2 types of ninja, the most common were Samurai of a particular clan who were trained in Shinobi ways. Then there were the type of Ninja you could hire from Iga province who were used by Daimyo for jobs they did not want to be associated with.

    The great Don F Draegar who had the most knowledge of any westerner in the ways of the warrior arts of Japan, reckoned that no genuine ninja could be taller than 5'3", this was after he was taken to a genuine ninjutsu training compound.
     
  2. spiraltwista

    spiraltwista

    Nov 29, 2002
    Double wow!

    Sounds like you realy know your stuff!

    Very interesting,

    First time Ive ever been to tall for something!

    Spiral :D
     
  3. Spectre

    Spectre

    Nov 3, 1998
    Well...considering that most of the people in Japan are descendants of Chinese...
     
  4. DannyinJapan

    DannyinJapan

    Oct 9, 2003
    Physical stature has no meaning in ninpo.
    Speed, strength, size, these are sports ideas.
    They are meaningless in real martial arts.

    You have to think at a higher level, guys.

    I know a judan (10th degree black belt) who is confined to a wheelchair. (he had the wheelchair first, then he started training...)
    If you had to be a certain size, this art would be useless.

    We trace the roots of Budo to northern India about 3,500 years ago.
    All Japanese martial arts, if they are honest, must trace their common heritage thus. I would not be surprised at all to find that the by-knives on a katana did not come from the same knife ancestor as the by-knives on a khukuri.
    (One sharp, one dull, stored near the mouth of the sheath, etc...)


    Very little that we think of as "Japanese" is really Japanese. Most of it is Chinese , Korean, Indian, etc., modified and mutated over the centuries.
     
  5. Spectre

    Spectre

    Nov 3, 1998
    Bit of an oversimplification, Danny. Remember the huge man Takamatsu fought for hours? While I understand (and agree) with your basic meaning, if one could contrive two equally skilled and motivated foes...the one with the better weapons would win.
     
  6. Ferrous Wheel

    Ferrous Wheel

    May 16, 2002
    or the fine by knives and tools with fine european dirks and large knife-swords. A good kit is a good kit, it could originate many places at once out of necessity as well.
     
  7. mrostov

    mrostov

    473
    Jun 24, 2003
    The khukuri is both a stabbing and slicing/chopping weapon. It can be used to combine the qualities and capabilities of the knife, the machete, and the short sword. Being originally a classical Greek design, the khukuri is one blade design that transcends both East and West.

    The khuk can be used many ways, but knowing the basic strikes and capabilities can help you incorporate it into what ever style you use to fight with.

    The khuk has the force to take off a hand or a forearm in either a block or a strike.

    In a strike to the skull, in can kill instantly. Other strikes to the head area can tear off a jaw or a nose, destroy an eye, or sever a head either partially or completely.

    As you punch forward with it in a stabbing motion, you'll notice that the angle of the blade has your wrist in a more natural punching motion.

    When the khuk is thrust into an abdomen and then pulled out hard, the natural curve of the blade tends to open up the entire abdominal cavity, disemboweling an opponent. In hard thrusts, 2 hands can be used with one palm at the back of the handle to provide power.

    Also, when quickly drawn across a throat with force, like in from behind, the natural curve of the blade tends to cut the windpipe and the major arteries and veins in one rapid stroke (as many an unfortunate Japanese soldier found out in Burma during WWII).
     
  8. Kendo

    Kendo Banned by Moderators Banned

    245
    Aug 10, 2002
    i cant be silent reading this load of cobblers, all you guys would probably crap yer knickers if someone attacked yus with cold steel.
    why dream about killing people ??????:(
    get back in the real world, these khuks are for decoration not would be warriors ha ha.:D
    i include myself in the knicker crapping crew,as i am sure most sane persons would.:D
     
  9. mrostov

    mrostov

    473
    Jun 24, 2003
    Then why do anything? Why even bother studying any of the martial arts?

    Do I myself carry a khukuri for daily protection?

    No, I usually don't. I usually carry on my person a .45ACP caliber pistol instead.

    But it is nice to practice and know how to use a khukuri.
     
  10. Yvsa

    Yvsa

    May 18, 1999
    Ken methinks you should take your meds again soon.:(
    FYI there are guys here that could be called up for active duty in the military and this is information that could, just could, save their live's!!!!
    As far as the general run of us, me included, I'm sure the info is at least interesting.
    I carry a sharp edged weapon of some sort every time I leave the house just -in case- I might be accosted by a bad guy(s), and worse yet that I may have to defend my dear wife.
    In my condition there has to be No Mercy because I have to do what I do quick just in order to be able to do it being in the health and shape I'm in.
    I don't think of "going around killing people," But I do -always think- about self defense.
    Just remember you're in a different country with a different set of culture values.:rolleyes:
    We can still buy guns over the counter even though we may have to wait several days to do so.
    It's the people who think as you do that live in our glorious country that has caused us to lose that freedom and others, as you have even lost more of your own freedoms.
    I think it is now against the law in Aussie land to even own a rifle?:grumpy: :rolleyes:
     
  11. mrostov

    mrostov

    473
    Jun 24, 2003
    Yvsa, they can own one, but they are not allowed under any circumstances to use one for self defense.

    Essentially, there is a mindset attempting to castrate that entire nation. Obviously a large number of the cattle have already been cut.
     
  12. Kohei

    Kohei

    87
    Jan 23, 2004
    Hi DannyinJapan,

    The reason given by the late Don F Draegar for the Ninja being no more than 5'3" was because of the concealment positions required for traditional Ninja to acheive. Just out of interest, it was the great Don F Draegar who introduced Ninja to the western cinema screens in "You Only Live Twice, James Bond 007".

    With regard to Budo, obviously it should not be confused with Bushido. The way Budo is classified in its Martial Practise is as follows:
    1. Classical Budo priorities are: A)Morals B)Discipline C)Aesthetic Form
    2. Classical Bujutsu priorities are: A)Combat B) Discipline C) Morals.

    Budo did not come into fruition as we know it until 1668 when Abe Gorodaiyu changed the word Kenjutsu to Kendo (this is not to be confused with modern Kendo, Abe Tate 1900). Although the origins of Budo in Japanese MA goes back to the Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu formed by Izasa Ienao (1386-1488).
    Basically, if its a Budo form the format should end in "Do". If its a Bujutsu format, it should end in "Jutsu".

    Also, classical Budo is not to be confused with Gendai Budo forms, such as Judo etc.
     
  13. Kohei

    Kohei

    87
    Jan 23, 2004
    Hi Mrostov,

    Very well said!! I've never tried the cut with the palm at the back of the handle to provide power, but I have been taught a similar palm assisted strike which enables you to cut through webbing at close quarter.
    Cheers "K"
     
  14. spiraltwista

    spiraltwista

    Nov 29, 2002
    Hi Kohei, Mrstov & all,
    I am out of my depth here, but I was under the impresion the Gurkha sentry removal tecnique in Burma was generaly a vertical kukri blow to the top of the head or a horizontal blow to the back of the neck?

    Boths attacks aimed at the central nervous systym {brain shot & spine shot.}
    Rather than the cardiovascular, presumably for speed & perhaps to save on all that wrestling,gurgling & getting smothered in blood?

    Personaly I would presume the CNS is the prime target for sentry removal given the opportunity, & a powerfull small sword like weapon capable of such effect.

    Each to thier own though!

    Cheers,

    Spiral

    :D
     
  15. StmmZaum

    StmmZaum

    293
    Dec 12, 2003
    Just reading through this and what I have read throughout the forum on 'fighting' Khuks, makes me wonder about a few things. First off I agree to some of what Kendo says about most people wetting themselves if accosted by an armed opponant, the fact is if someone jumped out of anyone with a fairly chunky knofe the chances are they would be bricking it. At the very least they would be scared (what was it about 'only fools have no fear for they know not what threatens them'?). The issue is not being afraid of an attacker, it is whether people could get past that and defend themselves. That is why it is worth arming yourself (if you feel it necessary), because if you believe then you can get past the fear to defend yourself or your family then fair doos. My point is simply this, I have, on a very few occaisions, carried a weapon for defensive purposes. I know full well that if someone tried to mug me on the street I would be scared, however I know through experience that I will normally have the presence of mind to decide whether I could defend myself effectively or should look for alternatives. All I am saying is that it is not a question of how afraid you are, its a question of how much presence of mind you have in these situations. The more training you have the more likely you are to have said presence of mind and so you are as much arming yourself mentally as physically.

    Next point, a recent incident on my road almost brought my father and me out on the street. Unsurprisingly the first thing that came to hand to defend ourselves with was a Khuk each, once things had calmed down I found myself thinking about a couple of issues, firstly which Khuk would I go for? Now I know that the Sirus and Kobras are preferred by martial artists (that blade type I mean, as opposed to the big heavy Khuks) but I have no training, thus actually I would go for my WW2 for two reasons, firstly it is BIG (thus intimidating, and in my experience if the kind of criminal you get round here finds that you are prepared to defend yourself then they tend to leg it), secondly because I am not going to be able to use complex martial arts moves, all I know is that if that Khuk hits a soft spot like the neck, muscle tissue, flanks and so on it will do a lot of damage. Now this is partly relevant to point one because in theory if an attacker sees a 18 inch WW2 he will realise it too, and realise that whatever happens he is going to get seriously hurt, thus will leg it. That is my theory of self defense for the ignorant anyhow.

    Hmm, that was a longer post than intended but I can summarise it thus for those who can't be bothered to read it:

    > Fear is natural, its getting past fear that is important and allows self defense
    > Training should help the above to happen
    > For those who aren't 'trained' then IMHO the best option is to grab the biggest, most intimidating object that you can weald comfortably and show your attacker that you mean business, you may find that they don't
    > If your attacker does want to 'make an issue of it' then do as much damage as you can in any way you can, fight, kick and bite as my father put it

    Anyhow, thats the view of an ignorant (of these matters) and probably more relivant YOUNG Brit, I just hope it makes sense.
     
  16. DannyinJapan

    DannyinJapan

    Oct 9, 2003
    May I ask from what non-internet source you have received this information?
    Did a qualified instructor tell you these things ?
    Did you read them in a book I can look at in the library ?
    I am very curious.
    I am always interested in learning new things, and if I am wrong, I am wrong.
    So teach me!
    (just no internet sites, only books or real instructors, ok?)
     
  17. Spectre

    Spectre

    Nov 3, 1998
    Kohei,

    So, would you agree that the words "Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu" would include the meanings for both a warrior path to enlightenment (do), and combat art (jutsu) (among other things)?

    John
     
  18. Spectre

    Spectre

    Nov 3, 1998
    StmmZaum,

    "Simple" moves, when defending yourself, are probably a good thing. :) I'm a WW II fan, as well.

    John
     
  19. kanochris

    kanochris

    66
    Nov 3, 2002
    check ebay for the book
     
  20. Kendo

    Kendo Banned by Moderators Banned

    245
    Aug 10, 2002
    yep i didant think of that yvsa, over there is a lot different to here in aus.
    we dont have to worry about gettin mowed down,or killed ect.
    well not much chance of it anyway;)
    it is like you say very violent in usa, compared to aus.
    so i conceed your point.:)

    oh yeh also meant to ask yvsa, whats the situation in usa on carring knives, khuks ect.
    here in aus you would get locked up for carryin a small bpocket knife,let alone a large khuk he he.

    AND LESS OF THE BETTER TAKE YER MEDS AGAIN MATE:):)
     

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