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Thoughts on authorized dealers raising GEC prices above the minimum sale price.

Discussion in 'FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly!' started by Fixall, Nov 11, 2020.

  1. LastRodeo

    LastRodeo Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Nov 2, 2013
     
  2. ooitzoo

    ooitzoo Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 2, 2010
    They could do what Spyderco does. Split production between US, Japan, China (Indonesia), etc. Effectively, this would bifurcate the market between users, collectors, and everyone else. If anything this has helped other companies grow while also meeting consumer demand.

    The alternative would be to bring additional production capacity online in the US discretely but there doesn't seem to be much appetite to do this and it may be difficult / impossible during COVID.
     
  3. EngrSorenson

    EngrSorenson Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Jul 3, 2019
    This is still a terrible idea. I’ve seen production outsourced so many times- the merchandise so often being of lower quality than brand intent that I’ve come to see this as a low quality maneuver. Not that quality things can’t be produced elsewhere, but that’s almost never how outsourcing is utilized.

    GEC would hopefully never even consider that
     
    bonky and Quiet like this.
  4. Quiet

    Quiet "That guy" Gold Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    No, they couldn't. People collect GEC for several key reasons, not the least of which is that the people who work at GEC are some of the few remaining master level traditional cutlers working in the US today. All others are custom level makers whose knives command prices that rare GECs only reach on secondary. Each GEC is put together and tuned by hand, by people who can be traced back to the good old days of Queen Cutlery, another American slipjoint company whose old work (from the time period that Bill Howard and several key employees who now work at GEC worked there) are sought after. GEC are high quality, small batch traditional American slipjoints, made by Americans. So, folks who are suggesting they could move production elsewhere are essentially showing a limited understanding of what makes GEC special, and why many people buy them, and further, why they command so much on secondary and people (who hate it, sure) still buy them.
     
  5. Wharn

    Wharn Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 1, 2011
    Anyone happen to know the “normal” non inflated dealer price is for the new 85 crown lifter in natural micarta? I told myself I was sitting out of these new runs but I really want to try for one without getting ripped off.
     
    EngrSorenson likes this.
  6. rcs86

    rcs86 Wanna be lawn master/duck hunter Platinum Member Gold Member

    238
    Feb 1, 2018
    $102
     
  7. Wharn

    Wharn Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 1, 2011
    I appreciate it. I was almost going to enter a lottery for a chance to buy one at $147 but I will pass now.
     
    EngrSorenson likes this.
  8. craytab

    craytab

    Jan 26, 2012
    Just like we told the other guy, this simply wouldn't work at all. Changing anything about how or where GECs are made instantly reduces their collectability. I guess that would solve the problem in that folks would't want them so no price gouging...

    The only way to increase production and maintain the brand is to do so in the same way they are currently produced, which apparently isn't an option. We can stop barking up that tree.
     
    Quiet likes this.
  9. abcdef

    abcdef

    Oct 28, 2005
    To parallel this thought, imagine telling Bose, Davison, et al they have to produce more and charge less for each one.
     
  10. Quiet

    Quiet "That guy" Gold Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    The issue is that every dealer is charging a different price. $147 (sadly) is a bargain compared to what these knives will command on secondary.
     
    Wharn likes this.
  11. ooitzoo

    ooitzoo Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 2, 2010
    They don't have much of a choice if they want to meet demand, right?

    Spyderco and other companies have shown the way and it works just fine.

    To be clear, I am NOT suggesting they move production elsewhere. I am suggesting that they open ADDITIONAL capacity off-shore. The American made models stay that way made by the same master level cutlers. The Chinese / Indonesian / etc. models will be less collectible and will likely sell for less. This would serve the user market.

    Its pretty simple. You can't have it both ways. You can't claim that prices are too high because of an items collectability and then also claim that expanding production capacity will ruin the collectability. You can have insanely high prices and maintain the overall "collectability" or you can bifurcate the product, have prices drop in aggregate, but still serve the collector market.

    I disagree that the latter negatively impacts the American made element at all.
     
  12. Quiet

    Quiet "That guy" Gold Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    "additional capacity offshore" is the same thing. It literally is moving production elsewhere. Please stop saying it's not. "Offshore" means "Not made in Titusville by master American cutlers", which is my point. Attempting to compare Spyderco (who has plenty of competition) to GEC (who has virtually none) is also an apples and oranges comparison, and it's something that someone who knows nothing about GEC or why fans like them would do.
     
    bonky and Airborne 1 like this.
  13. ooitzoo

    ooitzoo Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 2, 2010
    It absolutely isn't the same thing. Its just not. This blind nationalist assertion that a company can't expand production is plain silly. Obviously, knives made outside of Titusville will be labelled as such and the consumer can decide what they want to buy.

    Spyderco having competition while GEC doesn't only strengthens my point. Additional capacity is a risk when your market isn't guaranteed (like Spyderco) while having none makes it a pretty straight-forward bet (like GEC.)
     
  14. Quiet

    Quiet "That guy" Gold Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    "It's just not", except it completely is. A GEC made somewhere other than in America is going to lose a significant identifier on what makes it a valuable knife to so many people. I recommend you spending some time in the Porch, as this concept seems to remain unclear to you. You can attempt to denigrate what people find valuable about GECs as "blind nationalist assertion", but the fact is, that's just your opinion, and also a shifting of the goalposts.

    Putting all this bluntly, you have no idea what you're talking about and it's showing pretty heavily here.
     
    bonky and Airborne 1 like this.
  15. craytab

    craytab

    Jan 26, 2012
    That doesn't solve the problem that is the topic of this thread.
     
  16. ooitzoo

    ooitzoo Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 2, 2010
    The problem is that the market is supply constrained. Essentially, you have a company that doesn't produce enough to satisfy the demand out there. This leads to price increases (e.g. gouging). Producing more (and cheaper) should alleviate some (though, obviously, not all) of this. You'd be left with a user product for those that see their knives as tools (this would tend to be the cheaper / international models) and those that see them as collectibles (this would tend to be the more expensive / American models). I see no conflict here.

    That is, unless you're saying you wouldn't buy anymore GECs at all if they dared to expand internationally? To be clear, I don't think you are but figured it worthwhile to ask.

    Its worth noting the obvious: execution matters. Spyderco stumbled early on with their Chinese models quality control. This is clearly a key element in any international expansion so its important to get it right.

    Sure thing. I'll get right on that. Maybe while I do, you can take a look @ nearly any business textbook.

    They literally lose nothing. You'd still be left with the EXACT SAME American made product if you want it and have the choice for an international product. Don't want the Chinese / Indonesian / Polish / whatever model? Great, don't buy it.
     
  17. Quiet

    Quiet "That guy" Gold Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    "I don't understand anything about GEC or its fanbase. Look at a business textbook!" :rolleyes:

    Sure thing, I'll get right on that.

    In any case, I'm glad that what you propose will never happen because the owner of the company shares the same understanding of the fanbase of his company's products as I do. :) "Offshore" means "Not made in America", and GEC A. won't be doing that, and B. if they did, people would stop buying them. Bill Howard knows it. If folks want Chinese made slipjoints, feel free to head to the dealer for Rough Ryder, I know they'd be glad to have you.

    If you want a new slipjoint made in America of classic materials, and in classic American style, by Americans (and you don't want to wait for one of the custom makers), you buy a GEC. Pretty simple understanding.
     
  18. craytab

    craytab

    Jan 26, 2012
    No, I'm saying the knives that are the topic of this thread would still have the same limited supply. In fact, the problem could be exacerbated if more people were exposed to the brand, getting a taste and wanting the finer versions could drive demand up further, create more collectors!

    The only thing that addresses the "increase production" part of this topic is if somehow GEC can do that and maintain the production process they already have, which has been addressed as being very difficult if not impossible, and the owner might not even be interested.

    Try as we might, the increase production avenue seems to be at a deadlock, and overseas production is definitely not the answer.
     
    bonky and Quiet like this.
  19. ooitzoo

    ooitzoo Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 2, 2010
    Not true. Right now, you have users and collectors operating in the same market. This makes supply an issue (to be clear, its not the only thing but it does contribute.) By bifurcating the market, you eliminate the issue of users competing with collectors and give users an avenue to own the knife they want.

    As far as increasing brand awareness, I agree though this is a good thing for GEC and, depending on the price difference, may not matter.

    Addendum: this has the added benefit of opening additional revenue streams for GEC to then re-invest in US production (if they wanted to.)
     
  20. craytab

    craytab

    Jan 26, 2012
    I disagree. I think the people driving up the price of these gecs now will continue to buy the current product even if a cheap line were introduced. Supply of the desired product is not increased and demand will stay the same if not increase. The problem that is the topic here is not addressed by overseas cheap production.
     
    Quiet likes this.

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