Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'ESEE KNIVES' started by dartfrogger, Sep 23, 2009.
Paid memberships don't see ads!
Please provide said statistics.
I'm dont think people are upset that you share a different opinion. I think whats prodding people is your "Well guns kill people and hurt everyone. You could never be successful in defending your life with a gun" attitude.
I carry a gun every day. There are 18,328,340 people living in FL and 785,843 ( http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/licensetypecount.html ) of us have concealed weapons licenses. The Dept of Ag is sooooo backed up on applications for concealed weapons licenses that the state gave them extra funds to get the application back log taken care of. With that number you have to figure that 1 out of every 30 people I see has a concealed carry license. Ask me how many times I've been shot. Ask me how many times I've been robbed. Ask me how many people have pulled gun on me.
It would be a good idea to post some links with your accusations. Your making very broad statements without providing any proof of them.
And just because a person lives in a good area doesn't make them immune from crime. I cant understand why people think that way. Do criminals not have the ability to ride a bike, drive a car, or walk to a nice area? Eventually something WILL happen.
I would say that if you won't use it if you need to, don't get it.
If you are serious about protecting your family/self/house/whatever, the first step I reccomend is to take an introduction to firearms type of class. Most ranges should either offer such a class or be able to point you in the right direction.
Second, I would go and rent every pistol in the case at the range and see which one you shoot the best, then come back and rent that one a few more times to make sure it's the one for you, then find a way to finance it. As something that you may stake your own or a loved ones life on someday, buying a gun based on price makes about as much sence as buying a cheap motorcycle helmet. Get the best gun you can afford, buy once, cry once and all of that.
After you have your own gun take some more classes, and go to the range once or twice a week and practice. You won't be any good when the time comes if you don't practice.
If you don't want to commit that much money time and effort, do like I'm sure someone else on here said (I havn't read it all to be sure) and go get a 12ga. pump shotgun (mossberg or remington) and stoke it up with 00 or 000 buckshot and leave it next to the bed ("all you have to do is rack the slide.....my ass) If you go this route, atleast take it out and shoot a couple hundred rounds through it to make sure it works and you know how to operate it, because when someone is kicking in your front door isn't the time to be learning how your gun works.
I recomend a pistol over a shotgun because it is more convienient. A 1.5oz load of 000 buckshot may be alot more devistating to a target, but who is gonna pack a shotgun around the house all the time? A pistol is more likely to be where you need it when you need it. I don't remember who said it, but "the best gun to have in a fight is the one in your hand", not the shotgun by the bed, or the $2000 1911 that you keep locked in the safe.
IMHO I'd suggest a small revolver (38/357) and some classes with alot of range time.
Think about your own needs and wants- if you're not going to "get into it" other than a home defense weapon that there is a good possibility that you will also not want to invest the time and substantial $$ to comfortably shoot a pistol. That's right, in learning to shoot a pistol well you will quickly spend more on ammo than the price of the gun in today's market. For most people, shooting a pistol accurately is not a given and doing so under stress even significantly less so. I see guys at the range in a flat footed stance shooting and consistently hitting a stationary silhouette target who think that their accuracy in a lighted pistol range would translate into a real world exchange. This is a dangerous assumption. With adrenaline pumping one's hands need to be only trembling slightly to be way off the mark with a pistol. It is very difficult to simulate how well you will shoot under these circumstances unless/until it actually happens, where the silhouette is now a moving target that can potentially shoot back. As another example, I see hunters every year who can consisitently plug a bullseye at 100 yards with their deer rifles, some in an offhand stance. Yet year after year some of these same people miss "the big shot" at 30 -50 yards. Why? Different environment, angle of shooting, adrenaline, moving target, they were half dozing, etc, etc all add up to a missed shot that on the surface seems like it should have been easy. This happens regularly with people who have been hunting for years.
I own a bunch of pistols because I enjoy shooting them, but from a household self defense standpoint they're not even in the same ballpark as a shotgun. The net is this- if you're going to buy one gun for home defense not going to invest the time and ongoing practice in shooting your pistol very well, then get a 12ga shotgun, and don't look back. Buy some a couple boxes of buckshot shells twice a year and cycle them through just to make sure everything is in good shape. For home defense a shotgun is both cheaper and better.
Okay, for those who are interested in the story and my situation, I found out the rest of the story today. The reason my neighbor answered the door in the first place, with this suspicious guy outside, was that he heard the doorbell ring the first time, looked out the peephole, saw the guy, ran upstairs to get his gun, came back down, saw the guy was about to kick the door in. Because he was home with his two small kids, he decided he wanted to take the fight outside, so he opened the door, put the gun in the guy's face, and said it would be a good idea if he left now.
A great twist to the story: my neighbor is an ex-marine (which I knew) who also was a firearms instructor and is very active in shooting (didn't know). He said he'd be happy to take me to the firing range and teach me all about guns. Wow. I know I'll like that, but I still don't know about actually having a gun in the house. I do know I will love target practice. I think I just took a couple of steps down a slippery slope.
Thanks again for all of the responses.
Just wait till he starts to educate you out at the range.. Then you'll want one!
Or a couple of steps to your feet, depending on how it's looked at .
With all the conversation back and forth and around on this topic and all the very good advice I've seen given, I'm shocked we all missed the obvious bit. A good source of info and direction would be the person who prompted the entire idea.
Congrats, and welcome to the club.
Cool! Glad to hear it.
I followed this thread with a great deal of interest because one of my relatives recently had a similar experience as yours. He and his wife are scheduled to attend an NRA safety course with a local shop.
This thread is evidence that there is a lot of excellent information online. I suggest you take a look at the ProArms podcast (http://proarms.podbean.com) for information on guns, tactics (mental as well as physical), and discussions on the legal aspects of gun ownership and self defense. I've learned a great deal from this 'cast that have practical applications in my life.
Welcome to the slippery slope. Good luck.
Still waiting. Just in case you haven't replied because you are unsure, this is directed at you Thalestin.
I got a question for you experienced guys:
Is it true that a revolver can shoot multiple rounds consecutively faster than an auto?
That is fast!
So is a revolver considerably faster than an auto? Probably a noob question, but I never had a gun
In experienced hands, it's possible, because basically the action works as fast as you can make it go, where a semi-automatic has a cycle of recoil and return that pretty much is what it is no matter what you do--some are faster, some are slower, although almost all are so fast that your eye can't follow it. However, having never had a gun, your initial focus should be on learning to hit with it instead of just speed. Either a revolver or an auto will shoot faster than there is a practical need to outside of competition--learning to acquire a target very quickly, shoot and hit it, and then check for new targets all while moving to cover is what is needed rather than peppering one target over and over again.
Just a matter of practice. By the same token, a pump shotgun can be effectively shot faster than a semi-auto in experienced hands, but you'll have many, many thousands of shells under your belt before you get there. And again, the actual usefulness of that rate of fire is debatable. Suppression is all well and good when you're feeding ammo from a belt, but when you're talking capacities of 5, 6, 8, or even 18 rounds, your suppression will be short lived and immediately followed by a mad dash to deeper cover as all the people you missed open up on you.
Its not a stupid question. He is fast with a revolver, but he's even faster with a semi auto.
I think it comes down to the reloading. Most people would be much faster with a semi auto than a revolver though...Jerry's in the 100,000's of rounds per year category.
Thanks for your reply. Planning on taking a course and buying my first gun myself, I was previously looking at revolvers as something old-fashioned. But hearing all the positive comments about them in this thread, I might reconsider.
I havent read this thread in its entirety, but I will throw my opinion in. If you are concerned about intruders, gun speaking, I think nothing beats a pump action shot gun. Hard to miss your target, and the possibility of the shot it going through your intruder, through your wall, and into another room is very unlikely. It would be difficult to injure someone else in the house with the shotgun.
If you are uncomfortable with a gun, another idea is possibly a chemical deterrent like pepper spray or mace, maybe even bear spray in a large can with handle for home defense. Another option would be look into your state/city laws and see if you can purchase a taser. They offer great distance, especially in a house, and are also for the most part non-deadly. The new Tasers come with a laser sight too, so its pretty hard to miss.
My understanding is if you draw, you shoot. Do not give the attacker time to draw and fire back. You need to be willing to fire as soon as you see your target. You just need to decide on what he is getting hit with.
I had a neighbor at my old town house complex. His town house was broken into at night when he was sleeping. He was looking down the stairs, and the intruder was at the landing on the stairs. He fired 3 rounds at him (my neighbor had just awokened and was still half asleep at the time), and the intruder dove to the side and escaped. Police came, took a report, and he had to get his wall fixed. Moral of the story, is if someone is in your house and they intend on doing your house, or you, or your loved ones harm, do not think twice about taking them down first.
No, that's Jerry Miculek, a world champion shooter and not many in the world can shoot a revolver like he does.
"Faster" shouldn't be your goal, accuracy with a little speed should be.
I like auto's for higher capacity, in case I need to engage multiple targets.
My chosen sidearm is a Glock 23 which gives me a large enough bullet in a high capacity handgun.
Paid memberships don't see ads!
And that's fine---as long as the capacity isn't a replacement for being able to hit the target. I don't direct that at you, HICKMAN, just saying in general for potential new shooters.
Trying different guns and finding out what feels good in your hands is the key. I will not say anything against the Glock---they are very solid, reliable, pure-business tools and they do their job very well. Personally, I have to work at it to shoot well with one, where a Browning Hi Power, CZ-75 or Smith and Wesson N Frame revolver is just an extension of my hand. Sig is another fantastically well made pistol that just isn't a good ergonomic match for me, and yet one of my best friends is truly impressive with one in his hand.
Whatever is chosen as a primary weapon, you have to practice with it--in a controlled manner--and make its operation as intuitive to you as driving a car. You don't gain proficiency with either by doing them once or twice a year. In both activities, when something goes wrong, you're working largely on instincts which are based on what your past experiences have taught you. Hence, you want to be working off of plenty of past experience.
Oh, and a last point directed at all males looking to learn to shoot...listen to the instructor. Seriously. I swear, when I was doing instruction I would take a woman over a man any day of the week (and she'd be a better shot than the guy would by the end of that day), and that has nothing to do with preferred company---girls don't bring ego into the equation because they don't feel like they're "supposed" to know how to shoot. I swear, I had more young soldiers who had never shot a gun in their life and yet assumed, because they'd seen every Rambo movie twenty times, that they knew what they were doing. It can be hard as an adult to suddenly be told what to do in an authoritarian way like you were a kid again, but just don't take it personally, and absorb as much as you can. I'm not saying expect a drill sergeant for an instructor, just understand that you're controlling something that can easily kill somebody if mishandled, so if you're making mistakes you will likely be rapidly corrected in a very direct manner.