Using a Wicked Edge, TSProf K03, etc. for Professional sharpening service?

Discussion in 'Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment' started by oceanrider, Sep 2, 2020.

  1. oceanrider

    oceanrider

    41
    Aug 8, 2020
    I read the term "professional" or "pro" with the upper end of various blade sharpening systems(Wicked Edge, TSProf, etc.).

    I know people use Tormek's professionally, there are numerous videos of professional blade sharpeners using them. Also belt sanders/grinders seem to be used quite a bit.

    But I can't find actual professionals using systems like the Wicked Edge, TSProf, or others like these.

    Are these systems really used professionally?
     
  2. Glock Guy

    Glock Guy Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 28, 2012
    Josh AKA @razor-edge-knives uses the Wicked Edge professionally, and has for a long time. He is a moderator, and has his own sub-forum here with the same name.
     
  3. oceanrider

    oceanrider

    41
    Aug 8, 2020
    Thanks for your reply. Is Sharpening all Josh does, or does he work directly for Wicked Edge? I'm really wondering if there are any Independent Users of systems like the Wicked Edge, TSProf, Kazak Pro, Hapstone, Etc. that predominately, or at least 50% of the time, use a system like these to bring in some cash flow sharpening knives and such.
     
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  4. razor-edge-knives

    razor-edge-knives Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 3, 2011
    I use it to supplement my services, it's a minor part of what I do and I actually no longer offer exclusive wicked edge service. All edges are now first set by belt sander before I microbevel on the wicked edge
     
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  5. oceanrider

    oceanrider

    41
    Aug 8, 2020
    Thanks Josh, When Glock Guy mentioned that you use the Wicked Edge professionally, I got mixed up on Razor Edge and Wicked Edge and was thinking that you worked for Wicked Edge, my mistake above.
    Since you are in the industry, do you know of others that actually buy the very high-end systems like Wicked Edge or TSProf, etc. , and use them fairly often in a professional setting?
    When I search the web, mostly YouTube, I seem to find a lot of guys using Belt Grinders and various wheels as a professional sharpeners. It seems that the majority of people might not be willing to spend the extra for the extra time it might take to use a system like the Wicked Edge, or even TSProf, Hapstone, etc.. Maybe as a service if you sell knives and the buyer wants a perfect edge when he first gets his new knife. Do you think there are sharpening services that use a system like the WE, TSProf, etc for everyday sharpening of like kitchen knives. All the videos I've watched of guys using the Wicked Edge, TSProf, etc. is takes many minutes. Where guys using belt sander/grinders are getting it done in what seems only a couple of minutes.
     
  6. Eli Chaps

    Eli Chaps Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Apr 20, 2018
    There are folks who use these systems, or just use bench stones for professional sharpening. There is a guy in my area that runs around with a TS Prof and hits gun shows, shooting events, the fair, etc. But, he's just picking up spending money on something he already invested in. He's not paying himself a realistic wage. And of course, in this age, he's not doing any of that.

    Manual sharpening for a realistic hourly wage is going to be extremely hard to do. Most people do not care about insane edges. They have a handful of inexpensive kitchen knives, often serrated or so cheap they can't actually be sharpened, maybe some scissors, etc. and they want them sharpened for the next, oh, year, two years, something like that. Folks with power setups, especially mobile, can crank out a knife in two-five minutes and charge $10-20.

    Some folks do manage to make a living off manual sharpening but it ain't easy.
     
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  7. oceanrider

    oceanrider

    41
    Aug 8, 2020
    Thanks Eli, that is what I was thinking. I watched a few videos of guys that do it for a living so to speak(using Tormek or Belt Grinder, and wheels), one guy I think it is just additional to his retirement, he basically does Farmers Markets on the Weekends with a pop-up trailer he has setup just for knife sharpening. In one of his videos he mentioned that he did I think it was 70 knives that weekend. And after watching a bunch of videos where they go through the process of using a Wicked Edge or TSProf, I could not see how it would be possible to do that many in a reasonable timeframe, as it seemed most guys using a WE or TSProf took anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes to sharpen only one knife. Granted maybe they were going a bit more extreme than needed. So it got me wondering why they would market these sharpeners as "Pro". I guess a pro might buy one of these higher-end manual sharpening systems for the occasional customer who might want that mirror smooth edge.

    https://www.hertzmann.com/articles/2015/perfect/
     
  8. 000Robert

    000Robert Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 28, 2020
    I own a WE130 and I don't even care about insane edges. A good sharp toothy 800 or 1000 grit edge is plenty good enough for me. But it's nice to know that I can make an edge really shine if I want to.
     
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  9. sickpuppy1

    sickpuppy1 Gold Member Gold Member

    682
    Sep 27, 2018
    They’re called “pro” models because of the quality of product and the results given.
    The wheel type and belt grinders are for taking off lots of metal in a short amount of time. Which will give a working edge much sooner. At the expense of quality looks to a degree. An artist could use a 4” brush to paint the canvas faster but it doesn’t have the looks or detail of the proper tool.
     
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  10. mendezj

    mendezj Basic Member Basic Member

    936
    Nov 24, 1998
    About Wicked Edge: they have the BEST customer service I have experienced from just about any vendor. That said, it’ll take time to master the system, and it takes time to finish a blade to a high degree of finishing. Electricity moved the industrial revolution to another level yet.
     
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  11. 000Robert

    000Robert Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 28, 2020
    If you get a belt grinder it needs to be a wet-grind setup. Never let anyone put one of your knives on a dry grinder or they will more than likely ruin the heat treat on your edge apex and maybe even farther.
     
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  12. bgentry

    bgentry

    Aug 3, 2009
    Respectfully: I think you are mistaken. Nearly every manufacturer of blades, from Buck to Spyderco, to Benchmade uses belt sanders to sharpen their blades. Kershaw uses wheels. Some others might use wheels too. As I understand it, the vast majority of kitchen cutlery is sharpened with belt sanders. Nearly every professional knife sharpener uses a belt sander.

    I don't think they are ruining the temper of the edge frequently. Of course you could misuse the tool and drastically overheat the blade. I believe that any edge overheated enough to ruin the temper would be glowing visibly to do so. Even 200 degrees F, which will burn the crap out of your fingers, will not affect the temper of a blade.

    Brian.
     
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  13. 000Robert

    000Robert Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 28, 2020
    I don't believe it would take much to overheat a tiny sliver of steel. But I may be wrong.
     
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  14. oceanrider

    oceanrider

    41
    Aug 8, 2020
    Gotta generate return customers somehow :p

    I don't know the market but I'd have to guess that only 1-2% might be willing to pay what is needed to create the perfect unheated edge.
     
  15. oceanrider

    oceanrider

    41
    Aug 8, 2020
    Thanks to everyone for you discussion on this. I think sickpuppy1 said it correctly, that "Pro" or "Commercial" really just means a quality product with more likelihood of getting a very good outcome if used correctly. But some advertising does say to "use professionally" so I was wondering who might. But again, as sickpuppy1 says it is more marketing hype. Like a very occasional weekend warrior who might just do an oil change on his car every 4-6 months still might buy a set of Snap-On tools and tool chest just because they are of the highest quality and referred to as pro quality, and have more potential to retain that high quality for a long time. There is a definite difference between a good set of Snap-On tools and cheap ones.
     
  16. 000Robert

    000Robert Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 28, 2020
    Snap-On tools have always been my favorite. :thumbsup: I always loved how they felt in my hands.

    I just figured that I would end up getting a WE anyway - so I may as well cry once and get it over with. Now with my WE130, I can keep perfect edges on my knives with little worry about ruining the HT on the edges.
    I wonder though if even just a diamond stone ran down the edge fast enough would create enough heat to anneal the very tip of the edge? That's why I sharpen much slower than you see them using a WE on YT and other places - just in case.
     
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  17. sickpuppy1

    sickpuppy1 Gold Member Gold Member

    682
    Sep 27, 2018
    Brother, If you can mess up the heat treat with a WE, You sir, have had WAY too much caffeine!!!
     
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  18. 000Robert

    000Robert Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 28, 2020
    :) Perhaps. I wish I could afford a high dollar highspeed thermal camera to see it.
     
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  19. sickpuppy1

    sickpuppy1 Gold Member Gold Member

    682
    Sep 27, 2018
    Lol, I have one....but I use a Hapstone M2, so,no, heat ain’t the issue...
     
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  20. 000Robert

    000Robert Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 28, 2020
    Well, a stone running down an edge removing steel is going to create some heat. The question is, how much heat?
     

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