Waste Oil Forges

Discussion in 'Hammer & Tongs' started by David Stifle, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. Salem Straub

    Salem Straub

    Oct 20, 2008
    I actually do have a junk torpedo heater. It's got exactly what I need.

    Question oof, it seems as if you replaced the air pump from the burner assembly with an air line from an external compressor. 5-15 psi or so, you say?
    Also, fuel from a gravity tank above forge level, with a needle valve?
     
  2. oof

    oof

    634
    Jan 4, 2009
    James that door looks great. It will come in handy when you have to heat something that won't fit through the opening. The coking problem isn't so much on the burner itself, but on the refractory where it enters the forge.
    I would think a paint sprayer would work also if you can get the spray pattern narrow enough. Not ideal, but I have seen seen a fellow or two use one of these with some success. Iirc they required a little more pressure to atomize the fuel.
    http://www.harborfreight.com/engine-cleaning-gun-68290.html

    Salem, the answer to your questions are all yes. I have a stand alone regulator plumbed to the compressor that hangs on the wall next the forge. At the moment my fuel tank hangs level with the forge because I ran out of head room. Placing the tank above the forge will give you that much more head pressure for the fuel. Your compressor won't have to work as hard. And a needle valve will let you fine tune your fuel flow. I recommend a ball valve also so you can shut things down quickly if need be.
    I usually fire it up at 10 psi. no blower with a couple of sheets of news paper. after 30 seconds or so when i don't think it will go out i add the blower air to it. The blower will aid the compressor in pulling fuel through the nozzle(or so it seems) As the forge heats up I gradually turn the psi down. Usually around 5 psi for general forging, But there have been occasions where it's been turned down so far the gauge didn't register. gravity and the blower were doing all the work. The fuel may not be atomized at this psi, but when the forge is up to temp it matters less. the fuel will vaporize en route or upon hitting something. When welding I turn it up to 10-15 psi

    mark
     
  3. JCP1969

    JCP1969

    343
    Jun 3, 2012
    Mark , I will have to give it a try. I don't want to have a compressor going all day. Although it may not require a blower if it has that much air. I suppose I would have to get the viscosity of the oil down to where it would work or preheat but that may be another engineering pipe dream. I better try it though. Could be a while before I see a junk heater. I haven't google anything on this stuff. I may take a look.

    I would at least like to see some oil burning:D atomized oil that is. Thanks

    James
     
  4. oof

    oof

    634
    Jan 4, 2009
    James, The compressor running constantly was my main concern also. The blower is quiet, the compressor is noisy.
    alloyavenue has a section on burner engineering. I would start there.

    mark
     
  5. SinePari

    SinePari

    906
    Oct 24, 2013
    I'm going to remain on topic as best as I can, but I have to take advantage of the genius in this thread. Regarding the issue of the blower/ loud compressor; I've always had this nagging idea of utilizing exhaust gasses from the forge to possible spool a turbo charger, bringing fresh air into the fuel/air mixture... Different snails have different input/output specs. Smaller ones would be more efficient considering the air movement, but I've heard Good things about holset snails not needing much in the way of back pressure to breathe. I'm aware of the laws of thermal dynamics, and don't expect the moon and the stars as far as application is concerned, but do you see that as a possible solution to your issue?

    It's most likely a longshot, but a possible avenue of approach regarding a loud compressor....???
     
  6. JCP1969

    JCP1969

    343
    Jun 3, 2012
    My plan to use the bink 5 gallon pressure pot didn't work to well. The viscosity of the oil was pretty heavy and the compressor ran the whole time. I thought using the paint gun might work but it doesn't really atomize the oil. It just blows it once it leave the tip. I'm thinking use the pot but go with your siphon setup.
    The compressor will run a lot less since its much more efficient to use the siphon type.

    Mark , is the atomization in that pick just used motor oil or has it been thinned down with diesel? Maybe it summer and the oil was a little warmer. Heck I will run the oil thru SinePari's turbo for preheat . Ok just kidding or not.

    SinePari you may be on to something but I'm thinking more for a furnace. if you were to use a turbo just to draw air. The turbo could be driven by a small electric motor plus the aid of combustion . you could use a heat exchanger and draw warmed air into the furnace. Instead of trying to blow it thru and it would help to keep from having temperature loss due to the fresh cool air that normally is blown in. I did find an unused turbo at the junk yard a while back. I thought about maybe using it with the furnace but I didn't give a lot to that. Now. I may have to.

    Well lots to think about , hopefully Spring will come early.
     
  7. oof

    oof

    634
    Jan 4, 2009
    SinePari, I've read some conversations on using turbo chargers in a foundry application, but I don't remember how it all turned out. I would think a better chance would be had of it working on a closed system like a foundry or JCP1969's salt pot where the exhaust gasses can be forced in the direction you want them to go. My forge is open on both ends and the exhaust follows the path of least resistance. Most days the bulk of dragons breath goes out the back, but a slight change in wind direction will cause it to come out the front. Also temperature control and an oiling system would have to be taken into consideration. If the turbo was allowed to get too hot the oil will coke up.

    James, I'm not really sure how a paint pot or the gun it comes with works. I would assume that if it will spray latex paint it would spray some fairly thick oil. Having said that I can't recall anyone using one for the purpose we have in mind. The regular old paint guns like you would spray a car with I have seen used many times In a foundry setting. I'm just not sure how fine tunable they are as I've never used one. Some prefer to pressurize their fuel tank to deliver the fuel to the nozzle. I'm not a big fan of this for two reasons. The first is a safety issue, If the tank is pressurized and a leak develops it won't stop squirting fuel until the pressure is released. The second is convenience, if you run out of fuel while in use you will have to shut down and release the pressure before you can refill the tank. With the raised tank you can add fuel while the forge is running.

    The concern over the air compressor running all the time may be blown out of proportion a little. These nozzles are designed to lift a certain amount of fuel at a certain psi. and then atomize it. however if you put the fuel source above the nozzle you've removed the need to lift it and are left with only the need to atomize it. Fuel will run through these nozzles with no assistance at all if the fuel is above it. only it will come out in a solid stream instead of a spray.
    Also atomization of the fuel imho is more important on start up because finely atomized fuel is easier to light and removes the need for a preheat. Once the forge is up to temp atomization is less crucial because larger fuel droplets will vaporize instantly upon hitting the forge. Heck I think that you could almost feed pats of butter into it and keep forging.

    There has been a lot of talk of using heat exchangers in a foundry setting, but those involved were trying to achieve maximum efficiency in combination with reaching insane temperatures. With a forge and oil we don't really need to be concerned with either. propane has about 91,000 BTU per gallon along with a price per gallon that varies with location and time of year. The Btu's for a gallon of waste oil vary from 140,000 to 240,000 (that higher # seems a little fantastic) and a price per gallon that is usually 0$. The insane energy and low cost allows me to beat my inefficient forge into submission with brute force.

    The picture of the spray pattern is with diesel while it was still mounted in the torpedo heater. In the winter I thin my oil just a little, maybe a pint of diesel to 5 gallons of oil

    mark
     
  8. JCP1969

    JCP1969

    343
    Jun 3, 2012
    mark ,with paint guns your not getting atomization until the fluid leaves the nozzle at which point the air is directed at the stream of fluid to create a pattern. I get what you mean about the pot pressure continuing to bleed off even if the flame goes out, Also with refilling. My only real concern with the compressor was electric. I try and maintain a certain monthly KW usage. LOL I am a tight wad . Well its to easy to be wasteful is all I will say. I don't even own a TV. I use electric for things I really need it for. machines which the compressor is. You told Salem just by lessening the pull it helps so I will do all those things. I have a lot of electrical stuff. I am sure even with improvements , safety, you could install a sensor to turn a solenoid valve off and cut off air and fluid. I should be going to the scrap yard this week. I will get the parts. I've enjoyed grinding steel. I really want to smash some. I appreciate every ones ideas and input. If it weren't for it. I wouldn't bother turning on the computer.

    James
     
  9. SinePari

    SinePari

    906
    Oct 24, 2013
    My mind wanders a bit when it comes to finding solutions for any given problem, and instead of choosing option A,B, or C; I go for the abstract Z. I appreciate you guys taking the time to give me feedback. I've got some more dumb ideas up my sleeve regarding HHo generators, but I'll save blowing myself up for another thread.

    I'll be listening and taking notes from here on out, enthusiastically I might add... :D
     

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